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Comment Archives: stories: News

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

What I cant undetstand is why Harvest Moon organizers were so upset about Saucys attempt to stage another party, an Oktoberfest, on the same day as Harvest Moon.

Whats to be upset about?

More parties mean more people in the neighborhood. Wouldnt it be great if people from different strokes could meet each other and walk between the two parties?

Isnt the idea of a party to bring people together? The more the merrier, right?
Then, why the fight over this??

6 likes, 4 dislikes
Posted by theguv on 10/11/2017 at 11:37 PM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

Hey @resident, author here. Regarding the genesis of the story, see the first graf of the second section:

"Throughout the summer, before the potluck drama emerged, I'd been talking to neighbors from the Franklin-Clinton Block Club about some related concerns. I had a vague idea that I might write a followup to a piece I'd written two years ago about Ohio City development and the emergence of "Hingetown." Recently, neighbors had been expressing frustration with the media portrayal of their neighborhood's progress. They felt the narrative was being shaped and related almost exclusively by developers."

I was indeed reached out to -- pursued, if you like -- by members of the block club this summer to see if I'd be interested in writing a story. I wasn't sure if I'd follow through with it, but it merited, in my mind, some conversation about a topic that I agreed had been one-sided in the media. It wasn't until the "potluck drama," as I call it, that I felt there was enough of a narrative hook for the piece. It seemed like a pretty good physical illustration of the tension the neighbors had described.

And regarding objectivity: The obvious missing source in the story is Brent Zimmerman himself. We'd made contact on social media, but as I say he did not respond to multiple attempts to schedule an interview or even provide a comment via email. If you look at my 2015 piece on Hingetown, you'll see I spent considerable time with developers Graham Veysey and Marika Shioiri-Clark. I wanted to faithfully present their perspective, and was eager to do the same here. Brent wasn't interested.

You're right, though. Getting the perspectives of newer residents would be a good idea and would provide even more depth on this. Thanks for the comment.

9 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Sallard on 10/11/2017 at 5:24 PM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

Can't we all just get along and put a damn community center in the neighborhood? Something that everyone can utilize?

4 likes, 2 dislikes
Posted by Evander on 10/11/2017 at 3:45 PM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again


Can you clarify what you mean when you say "that's exactly why this article was pursued"?

It's strange for a reader to know the exact purpose of an article.

Who pursued the article? Who determined the purpose of writing this article? What is the purpose of this article?

Did you, or a group of residents, approach Sam Allard to write this piece after your Facebook post didn't quite go exactly the way you would have liked?

Sam Allard is this objective coverage of an issues (it doesn't have to be) or was it influenced by connections you might have with particular residents?

7 likes, 5 dislikes
Posted by resident on 10/11/2017 at 3:17 PM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

I think it's hilarious that folks complain about being misconstrued, a sentiment that Allard validates.

You're not being misconstrued. Your audience is either identifying biases that you hold but won't acknowledge, or your message is unclear.

There is a palpable anti-development, anti-outsider, anti-new resident sentiment on behalf of a set incredibly vocal residents. It's hilarious that Allard had a lengthy conversation with Kampf and not any of the new residents who might have a different point of view.

Kampf deserves space should Allard feel it's necessary to tell the story. But so do others, especially the evil intruder who has violated the sanctity of the neighborhood by deciding to move/visit here.

It seems like the harvest moon festival went on without issue. I'm very happy about that. Maybe this "controversy" was just a way to engage in yet more ideological conflicts -- a standard way to approach any new thing in ohio city.

7 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by resident on 10/11/2017 at 3:07 PM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

Also, Angie, I'd like to point out that I am a renter in a home that remains affordable to me only because--at great personal financial sacrifice--my landstewards make it possible. I'm not sure on what basis you're assuming things about who is part of this conversation....

5 likes, 3 dislikes
Posted by Paula J Kampf on 10/11/2017 at 3:00 PM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

Again, no one is anti-renter. New people are moving to the neighborhood and that's a great thing. Mixed income development is welcomed, but that's not what is happening. And it is disingenuous to state that "It's all on surface parking lots," when it is absolutely not all on surface parking lots. If you need evidence of that fact just drive around the neighborhood or read some block club meeting notes. Gentrification, in its earliest stages is happening, and displacement is likely on the way and to stifle conversation about these topics fearing that development will cease is unfounded.

Your position conveys the message that the current practices of tax abated market-rate housing and public spending that draws in wealthier residents should be favored above all other forms of investments as both the existing and the most logical path to neighborhood stability. Fairness and inclusion are not guaranteed by these strategies. Its a privileged position to suggest that those struggling with the climb in neighborhood rents and increased tax assessments arent worthy of a conversation.

16 likes, 8 dislikes
Posted by PriscilaR0706 on 10/11/2017 at 1:09 PM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

In my opinion, they need to stop the tax abatement in Ohio City and Tremont. The areas are already desirable enough to develop now on their own. Use tax abatement strategically to draw development to other neighborhoods. It worked well for Ohio City and Tremont, but is now unnecessary and potentially problematic.

28 likes, 6 dislikes
Posted by shady machine on 10/11/2017 at 12:52 PM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

I was not misquoted and Sam described the thrust of the comments I made correctly.
"Naysayer" was however used by me to refer not to development but to the form that it has taken in one neighborhood.
"Density" as a principle is the idea that increased population fosters stores, public transport, and improvements in neighborhoods that would not otherwise be possible with a smaller population.
But that is the case for all neighborhoods. In other cities the permission to build or convert in one neighborhood is tied to development in other areas. Or to development that follows a plan that speaks to more than the class of people who can afford 1,200 mo. for a one bedroom apartment (a sign at Edge 32, a new high rise on West 32nd st.) Or five times that for larger spaces in that building.
Most of the grassy lots of Sam's childhood had houses on them before "Ohio City" existed.
Turning those and other spaces over to developers who, perhaps legitimately from their perspective, are going for maximum return on their money rather than planning what would be of a more general benefit to both this neighborhood and to the entire city is short sighted and not to the advantage of one neighborhood or generally to my city, Cleveland.

7 likes, 7 dislikes
Posted by donttakelifesoserious on 10/11/2017 at 12:26 PM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

I hear you Priscila. To me this is a smart development though. It's in a walkable, transit oriented area. It's all on surface parking lots. This is very sustainable development. A big obstacle to this kind of sustainable development nationally is this kind of pushback from neighbors.

People want to move to the neighborhood like you did. And that's why developers are here. To provide housing for them.

As far as gentrification goes, no one is being displaced because this is happening on parking lots. I think this group needs to be upfront about being in a rather privileged position in this discussion, which is fine.

Cleveland is very badly in need of new housing and different housing types -- specifically multi-family. And we are in need of new investment and new population that can support services for lower-income folks. There aren't a lot of places in the city that can support this type of market rate housing, unfortunately, because we're still a poor, shrinking city.

IMO, this right next to downtown, is the PERFECT place for high-density multi-family. I think the city rightly recognizes that. I think the neighbors' fears that these renters will ruin the neighborhood are natural enough, but are also a bit hyperbolic. I think if they build, they will find that the community that they love will continue to grow and maybe change some but still be a place that they are proud of and love and more people will be able to enjoy it.

16 likes, 9 dislikes
Posted by Schmange19 on 10/11/2017 at 11:43 AM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

Hi Angie: With all due respect, no one in this community is "essentially exclud[ing] new people from moving to the neighborhood." But that is the argument that is constantly espoused anytime anyone in this community speaks out about the future of this neighborhood. That argument is exactly why this article was pursued. As mentioned in the article, it's a fools errand to believe that development isn't happening here. Renters are here, more are coming. No one is opposed to renters. I repeat, no one is opposed to renters. Expensive Condos are here, more are coming. Were only going to get more desirable neighborhoods if we have difficult conversations about what it truly means to have a mixed-income neighborhood. Were great at celebrating diversity in this city, and far less able to realize that diversity as lived experience through meaningful policy reform.

Since this whole thing has come to light I've heard grumblings that Ohio City residents should just sit back, shut up, and be happy that someone wants to hold any event, open any business, or develop anything in this neighborhood. It has been argued that residents who want a voice in their neighborhood (as it relates to businesses, events, proposed development, etc) are old, resistant to change, and stifling growth and economic prosperity by speaking out about topics like gentrification, inequitable development, and business owners who show a lack of regard for the neighborhood they chose to start a business in. I imagine these are the types of comments that will appear later today in response to this article.

To me, sitting back and shutting up is the OLD Cleveland way. OLD Cleveland sits back and says any new development of any variety is good development. OLD Cleveland says we need growth of any kind and for any reason even if it's inequitable (racially and economically) and often not design appropriate for a particular district. OLD Cleveland is arguing were not big enough or important enough to have things that matter. We shouldn't demand more, but just accept what is put before us without question or further dialogue. OLD Cleveland is not having a proactive plan for anything but then complaining about an outcome afterwards. OLD Cleveland is labeling a group of residents with legitimate concerns about the future of a neighborhood as NIMBYers without listening to any of the nuances of their concerns. OLD Cleveland means that knowing someone or being wealthy is the only way to get a meaningful seat at the table. OLD Cleveland is how we get stuck with places like Burke Lakefront Airport and other development decisions that don't make a whole lot of common sense. The point is the media only focuses on one narrative. New development from the voice of developers. We'd also like to be a part of the narrative.

- PR

31 likes, 11 dislikes
Posted by PriscilaR0706 on 10/11/2017 at 10:58 AM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

This is gentrification and the lousy hipster mentality manifest. The developers don't care about the neighborhood or the community or its traditions and people, they care about developing that space and making money and making a name for be that newest hot spot you read about on some blog... the rest of you be damned.

Thank the mayor and the career politicians in city council for making all of this possible.

22 likes, 17 dislikes
Posted by Captain Obvious on 10/11/2017 at 9:53 AM

Re: “Turf Wars and Philosophical Divisions in Ohio City ... Again

I'm sorta disappointed that this "community" spirit is now being used to essentially exclude new people from moving to the neighborhood.

For example, Rocha, who I know and who has only lived in the neighborhood for four years, makes some decent points and was pretty measured and reasonable I think. But why not let more people move in like she did and join the Harvest Moon Festival?

To me the emphasis on the personalities of the developers is sort of off base. And elides some class issues presented by the folks waging the campaign against them.

Ultimately, it's the renters who have the biggest stake here and they are totally lost in this discussion, and arguably of lesser wealth and political power than the "community" that may, through their actions, succeed in excluding them.

21 likes, 22 dislikes
Posted by Schmange19 on 10/11/2017 at 9:49 AM

Re: “Exotic Fish are Poised to Infiltrate the Great Lakes. What's at Stake? And What Can Be Done to Stop Them?

I read chapter one at the library. good book

Posted by Thomas Pirko on 10/09/2017 at 2:25 PM

Re: “Bull Fighting

Bull..I am part of this family. However, his side of the family has a long history of being thieves. I wish Interpol would take an interest.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Harry on 10/08/2017 at 10:32 PM
Posted by LakeErieSeaGulls on 10/04/2017 at 8:33 AM

Re: “Achy Breaky DJ Story

I knew Danny back in the mid 70's at KCBQ in San Diego. Great Guy. A lot of fun. Always wondered what he did after he moved on. Radio is a hard profession to do. Danny if you read this, Hello from Mitch & Sharon (Blue Meannie Records, El Cajon).

Posted by Mitch Holdinghausen on 09/29/2017 at 10:18 PM

Re: “Telephone Terrorist

Swatting isnt all they do. They hack police records and put fake charges on people. I have dealt with the people for over 20 years and all because of family members

0 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by Jay Schriner on 09/25/2017 at 8:48 AM

Re: “Transit Police Say RTA's Unofficial Fare-Enforcement Policies are Inequitable and Dangerous

How long are you going to let this personal pissing contest remain on your board, SCENE?
Aren't you embarrassed enough yet?

Chuckles the Clown

2 likes, 6 dislikes
Posted by Chuckles the Clown on 09/24/2017 at 2:12 AM

Re: “Bull Fighting

His ex wife says she inherited millions when he died from his parents. Exact amount said was 3 million

Posted by George on 09/23/2017 at 8:49 PM



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