You can openly carry a gun in the state of Ohio. WE GET IT.
That should be the end of the discussion, which often leans heavily in favor of gun rights. OK. But some pro-gun “advocates” thought to drive the point home last week in fairly suburban Medina, where they posted up in historic Public Square to talk policy and flaunt AR rifles and other firearms.
And, yeah, they were on fine legal ground, as it happens, but the problems began when people dialed 9-1-1 in rapid succession – 10 times during the May 5 afternoon event alone. People were calling 9-1-1 because there were other people walking around historic Public Square with AR rifles. The visual is unsettling; the implications are harrowing. None of that has anything to do with Ohio’s open carry laws.
Medina police have caught flack for approaching these guys and asking for ID and generally trying to ascertain what in the world was going on. We’re certainly no police apologists here at Scene, but, wow, if there are guys strolling around Cleveland with firearms en masse, we would like to think an upstanding officer or two would touch base with them ever so briefly (hold the 137 bullets).
The broader problem with this whole thing is that literally no one is saying these people can’t own or carry their guns. In the realm of public demonstration, this is useless – and the ripple effect of armed civilians congregating and warding off police presence makes for a very alarming way of life in otherwise quiet Medina. Police Chief Pat Berarducci sounds weary when he addresses the concerns of this crowd and says that once an officer confirms all the right requirements are met, “We don’t care what you do.” Pretty simple, really.
The pushback from open-carriers comes from a perception that officers are treading on their rights by requesting ID. Sure, if a person is walking down the street and doing nothing more than humming the latest pop song, then of course there’s no legal basis for an officer to get all up in their grill. But the plain-view sight of a firearm prompts officers to request state ID – just to make sure and maybe even celebrate that such a person is following the law. It can be fun! It’s not a “reasonable suspicion” issue; it’s the simple fact that a machine created solely for the purpose of killing things is being introduced into a public setting. Which is fine, per Ohio law, as long as a diminishing list of requirements is met. Police are the people that society grants the ability to check out those reqs, however ill-begotten their methods most of the time.
“We take no issue with an officer responding, requesting ID or having a consensual encounter,” members of Northeast Ohio Carry say via a public statement. “We only take issue with the fact that the chief thinks that merely exercising a constitutionally protected right and carrying a firearm openly gives him reasonable articulable suspicion to force detainment and force ID. It does not.”
How articulable.
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The story has generated plenty of conversation in Medina. In Cleveland here, a question for both sides of the coin: Are intentional open-carry demonstrations effective as educational tools? What sort of reactions should be expected from police and non-carrying citizens?
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This story has been updated in response to inaccurate legal reporting.
This article appears in May 14-20, 2014.
“With the right permit you can openly carry a gun in the state of Ohio. WE GET IT.”
No, you don’t get it. You don’t need ANY permit to open carry in Ohio. Open carry is allowed in Ohio. Let me help you here. Unless something is specifically made illegal by the legislature it is legal. As you may know, there is no law prohibiting reporters from being totally wrong in the first sentence of an article. So it is perfectly legal and allowed.
Then you get to this part:
“Medina police have caught flack for approaching these guys and asking for ID and generally trying to ascertain what in the world was going on…….”
Again, you are very wrong. They were doing nothing illegal, and the courts in Ohio have ruled that having a gun in the open is NOT grounds to stop and question someone…just like it is not grounds to stop and question someone because they have long hair.
It all falls under what is called a ‘Terry Stop’. A very famous Ohio court case. You know, that whole probable cause and 4th amendment stuff.
And now you know why guys did what they did. Because virtually no one understands the law and the cops don’t follow it. And until they do there will be these kinds of actions.
Try to do your research and report the facts better. Your very first sentence: “With the right permit you can openly carry a gun in the state of Ohio. WE GET IT.” is wrong. What troubles me is if you are going to write an informative article on such a divisive and important issue you should darn well have the journalistic integrity to do your research and get the facts right. Under Ohio law you need NO PERMIT to open carry a firearm. You need a permit only to carry a firearm concealed. Facts, research, accurate reporting. You can do it.
OPEN CARRY IS 100% LEGAL IN OHIO!!!!! NO PERMIT REQUIRED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! SO NO!!! YOU DON’T GET IT!!!!!!
Sorry to steal your line above poster!! lol
Open carry is suspicious. It immediately demonstrates cause for a Terry frisk. Even concealed carry is sufficient. Cowardly thuggees needing artificial genitalia to feel secure staggering around in public places create a dangerous environment, and interferes with other rights, like rights to personal property in one’s own body. Moore v. Regents of University of California, if you’re citing case law, you own your own body until it’s turned into a commodity.
They do have the right to open carry in Ohio, with no permit. But their presence seemed to cause a mild panic, as noted by the multiple calls to 9-1-1, and when that happens the officer have a duty to investigate to ensure that everything is alright. Open carry is legal in Ohio, but not every citizen has the right to be in possession of a guy.
Ben is ignoring that any person who has a concealed carry permit has passed a criminal background check, so yeah, clearly we are the “thugs”. He also ignores that people who legally carry are the least likely to commit a crime. People like Ben only see that a firearm can be pointed at someone, what they don’t see is what is being protected behind the firearm, which can include not only the law abiding citizen, but their family as well. Yeah, thugs all of us.
Regardless of any legalities, the law of common sense still applies (in my opinion). We live in a crazy violent world. We hear about school shootings, church shootings, and shootings that happen in public places all too often.
I served in the military. I have been trained in the proper use of firearms and deadly force. And I was (and am) proud to have served to protect our freedoms. BUT… I’m a father now and a private citizen. As such, I want to know that the police are, indeed, serving and protecting. If I’m in downtown Medina with my little girl and see a bunch of guys demonstrating with Ar-15 assault rifles, you’d better believe I’m going to be looking to the police to make sure that the demonstrator isn’t going to suddenly open fire. Police need to protect the citizens who aren’t carrying guns. They have rights, too.
What are people in MEDINA so afraid of that they NEED to openly carry a firearm? How weak, scared, or insecure must someone be to need to advertise to the world that they have a gun to make them strong (presumably, in the absence of anything else)?
Pitiful.
Openly carrying a firearm is like showing up at your local Cracker Barrel in a Lamborghini — YOU’RE THE ONLY ONE WHO CARES ABOUT IT.
So why didn’t the po-po play it like they do over in 4th District: “There was an armed robbery just up the street a few minutes ago, and you match the description of the suspect. Say, is that a gun you’re carrying? Can I see some ID?”
Problem solved.
Not reading this after reading first line. You don’t have to have any permit to open carry, only conceal, although it is very frowned upon.
Let me play devil’s advocate to all the copblockers and libertarians here with this little scenario: Say some lunatic happens to be strolling around carrying a gun out in the open, causing people get alarmed and call the cops. The lunatic gets all indignant about his rights to be a gun exhibitionist when the cops try to talk to him. After the cops leave the lunatic goes into the restaurant where his wife is eating with her boyfriend and he proceeds to shoot the place up. Killed are his wife, her boyfriend, and in the spray of bullets a few patrons are slaughtered while having their monthly copblock luncheon. Oh my! Can you imagine the outcry and tears shed? All the indignant howls about how the cops didn’t do enough to protect everyone from some nut who felt the need to advertise his gun to the world? An excellent comment above beat me to the point. That point being that those of us who do not have a gun being proudly displayed for all the world to see also have a right to be protected. I would expect the police to ascertain that anyone feeling the need to show off his gun be at least confronted. There are already options for people to carry a concealed weapon, if they want to play by the rules. Nobody needs to run around showing off their gun.
If something shouldn’t happen based upon your worldview – then change the law. I’m personally against open carry – but I support these people open carrying and not being questioned. Because that’s the law – the rules we have all chosen to abide by. And individual opinions don’t count. We have made a *collective* decision about what is correct – and these gentlemen are in the right.
If you’re upset about this – then you’re in the wrong.
45 states allow the open carry of holstered handguns. So does Ohio. In fact, Ohio law preempts localities from banning open carry in city hall and other public places. Learn more at OpenCarry.org.
This is what happens after decades of media coverage treating legal carry, and the 2nd Amendment in general, as some sort of criminal act in and of itself. The sheeple buy into this notion without giving it a moment’s critical thought, and 911 is dialed off the hooks. It certainly doesn’t help matters that since 9/11, the NSA, and LE in-general, have been promoting a Nazi-like agenda of ‘turn your neighbor in’ on the silliest of premises. All in the name of ‘security’, mind you. Liberties? What liberties?
“Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety” – Benjamin Franklin, circa 1755, Pennsylvania Assembly.
Posted by DEO on 05/15/2014 at 3:43 PM:
“After the cops leave the lunatic goes into the restaurant where his wife is eating with her boyfriend and he proceeds to shoot the place up. Killed are his wife, her boyfriend, and in the spray of bullets a few patrons are slaughtered while having their monthly copblock luncheon.”
Oh my, what a creative imagination!
FWIW – I don’t think you’ll ever find a documented case where peaceful, carrying citizens ‘shoot up’ the place after the ‘cops leave’ an open-carry demonstration.
Your reference is obviously a thinly-veiled account based on the nutbag who killed his wife and kids at the Brooklyn Cracker Barrel restaurant a few years ago. This is a major ‘fail’ based on a couple of crucial elements that lack any basis in reality. One – the perp in the Cracker Barrel incident never took part in a public demonstration of open carry. And two – Kevin Allen, the killer, had multiple previous arrests for domestic violence and, by law, should have never been allowed to own a firearm.
You’re making a failed, thinly-veiled attempt to compare honest, peaceful law-abiding citizens to a known felon, with a history of violence against his spouse.
Nice try. Those of us who can see through the obvious tug on the heart strings – without any intelligent link to reality – can clearly identify it.
You do not have to have an ID to walk around the streets. You do not have to carry an ID when you Open Carry. I personally have a Drivers License and am only required to carry it when operating a Vehicle and a Conceal Carry Permit is only required when Conceal and Carrying….
If people truly understood gun rights then they wouldn’t be calling the police just because someone dared walk around with a gun. THAT is what open carry rallies are about. They are about educating the public. Which is more than I can say this ridiculous article does.
No able-bodied individual has the ‘right’ to be protected…you have the ‘responsibility’ to protect yourself and your loved ones.
So I am a CCW holder and can see both sides of the coin. I don’t see the issue with asking for I.D. in fact I would expect it as I am carrying a loaded firearm in plain sight in a public area. While it may be against our legal right why cause any undue attention and just comply with a simple request. Now if I am hunting in an area in which I can legally do so and am asked to provide I.D. for no reason I may be less likely to comply because it is expected that I will be carrying a firearm. Just MHO
Hmmm no arrest, no laws broken, end of story. Unless the media is trying to fabricate one?
If I recall correctly this was in response to a law in Medina prohibiting open carry. The law was illegal based on preemption ORC 9.68. The high courts in Ohio have ruled that open carry of a firearm does not in and of itself give an officer probable cause to search to ask for ID, not does simply having a concealed handgun license.
Who cares if it’s a good educational tool or not, its our right.
This is simple, you’re not required to carry ID while walking so leave it in your trunk when you take your gun out. You can’t refuse to show what you don’t have. Carry a copy of the Bill of Rights instead.