Severance Hall is a seductive place. Its high-ceilinged walls were patterned after the wedding dress of John Long Severance’s deceased wife. With its Gothic archways, the building is like a monument to romance.
The heart of the room is the stage. Weekend nights, women in long black gowns and men in crisp tuxes play music of passion and love. Their eyes and bodies express sorrow, desire, and joy as their bows move urgently across the strings of their instruments. To sit in the hall, listening as the notes meet, merge, and rise heavenward, is to understand fully the weight of romantic emotion.
As concertmaster, William Preucil is the most powerful man in the Cleveland Orchestra. Situated in the seat closest to the audience, the 49-year-old crouches over as he plays, his rangy body curved into the shape of a “c.” To the audience, it appears that his violin, tucked firmly under his chin, is an extension of his body. His feet begin to tap, his chest sways, and his head nods rhythmically. When the notes turn dramatic, his bow cuts so furiously into his violin that it looks as if the instrument might break. It’s easy to fall for the man’s grace, power, and aura.
Many have. When he arrived here 12 years ago, he was celebrated as a savior, a gifted concertmaster who would cement Cleveland’s place in the upper echelon of world orchestras.
“Bill is one of the greatest concertmasters in the world,” says Gary Hanson, executive director of the Cleveland Orchestra. “It’s only appopriate for him to be playing for one of the greatest orchestras in the world.”
But soon after Preucil arrived, he began to use his power for his own benefit, pushing for his family members to gain prominent spots on the orchestra floor, several members say. And as a teacher at the Cleveland Institute of Music, Preucil made an unwanted advance toward one of his students, say several people who know the woman involved. When the relationship threatened to become public, CIM paid for the student to transfer schools and continue her musical education elsewhere.
Now, as the consequences of Preucil’s arrogance mount, some within the orchestra are wondering: Will the man who was supposed to save the orchestra end up destroying it?
When William Preucil arrived in 1995, the Cleveland Orchestra had been working without a concertmaster for a year and a half. The former concertmaster, Daniel Majeske — a man best known for his enthusiastic Christianity — died suddenly of prostate cancer in November 1993.
So when it was announced that Preucil would be taking the job, people were understandably excited. The concertmaster, an esteemed violinist who sits in front of the orchestra, is considered the most important member of the group. He sets the tone and pitch, and is the person other members turn to when they’re lost in the notes. In many ways, the concertmaster is the voice and face of the orchestra.
Preucil had the perfect résumé for the job. He was known worldwide as a virtuoso who wasn’t afraid to take musical risks. He also owned a proud pedigree — his father, William Sr., served as the former principal violist of the Detroit Symphony. His mother, Doris, played violin in the National Symphony and started the acclaimed Preucil School of Music in Iowa. His brothers and sisters were scattered at orchestras across the country.
“If the Preucil name is behind someone or something, people in the music world listen,” says Paul Landefeld, CEO of the International Suzuki Association.
After graduating from Indiana University, Preucil worked as concertmaster at the Nashville, Utah, and Atlanta symphonies. In the late ’80s, he took a job touring with the Cleveland Quartet, a group considered to be the Beatles of classical music. But the group also kept rock- star hours. In the early ’90s, Preucil expressed a desire to settle down. Orchestras around the country leapt at the opportunity to hire him. Philadelphia publicly and aggressively courted him. But in a major coup for Cleveland, Preucil chose to move to Ohio.
“The Philadelphia Orchestra is a great orchestra,” he said at the time. “I have great respect for everyone there. All that said, it’s Cleveland where I need and want to be.”
The feeling was mutual.
“When he first came, we found him to be absolutely delightful, funny, and friendly,” says Martha Aarons, a former member of the orchestra.
Preucil made himself available all hours of the day. Once, when the orchestra was on tour in Hong Kong, a new member asked Preucil to give her a few pointers. With no sleep, Preucil gave the member an hour lesson and wouldn’t accept any payment for it.
“When you’re a lowly performer, most experienced players won’t associate with you,” the orchestra member says. “He was different like that.”
Critics treated Preucil as if he walked on water. In 1997, a reviewer for The San Diego Union-Tribune wrote that a Preucil-led concert “transcend[ed] all ordinary musical bounds and enter[ed] the realm of near mystical.” Other critics called Preucil’s playing “heaven-sent,” “ethereal,” and “luminous.”
Preucil’s acclaim also benefited the Cleveland Institute of Music, where he began teaching. Just having him on staff spiked the number of applications.
“He’s the concertmaster of the Cleveland Orchestra and an amazing teacher,” says Susan Schwartz, spokeswoman for the Cleveland Institute of Music. “That’s an amazing draw.”
Students worshiped him as well.
“He’s just a charming, witty guy,” says former student Josh Roman, who would time his cigarette breaks to coincide with Preucil’s. “We used to sit around and listen to his recordings all the time in the dorm.”
Unlike many orchestra members, Preucil traveled by himself on tours, leaving his wife and young child at home in Cleveland. To keep himself busy during the two-week stretches, he’d spend nights playing poker.
The Cleveland Orchestra has long been praised for its artistry and precision. In 1994, Time magazine declared it “the best band in the land,” and in 2005, The New Yorker proclaimed the orchestra “the finest in America.”
Cleveland, however, runs its operations differently than most top-flight orchestras — especially in regard to auditions. In most other cities, a screen is erected between player and judge to ensure an unbiased opinion of the playing.
“Having a screen forces [judges] to be much more objective,” says Ariane Todes, editor of The Strad magazine, the bible of the violin industry. “It’s the most fair way to listen to anyone and evaluate them.”
In Cleveland, however, the directors claim there’s no need for a screen.
“It’s always been that way,” says Hanson, the executive director. “The quality of our orchestra is the best argument for the success of our audition process.”
But experts say that without a screen, it’s much easier for judging to become corrupt. And since William Preucil has come on staff, some orchestra members say that’s exactly what happened. His sister, brother-in-law, and daughter have all won coveted spots in the orchestra. Preucil sits on the audition committee at every violin tryout and has never recused himself.
“It’s an abuse of power” when relatives are allowed to judge each other, says violist Eliesha Nelson.
In 1997, Preucil’s brother-in-law, Steve Rose, was the first Preucil family member to receive a spot in the orchestra. Later, Preucil pushed for Rose to receive the position of associate concertmaster, members claim. In meetings with other members of the judging committee, Preucil trashed other candidates for the job and claimed he couldn’t work with anyone but Steve.
“It was complete character assassination,” says violinist Lev Polyakin.
Rose didn’t get the part of associate concertmaster, but he did earn a coveted spot as principal second violin, a prestigious position that comes with a salary increase and an automatic seat on the audition committee. The Preucils now had two seats on the judging panel, which typically consists of between 5 and 10 members.
In 1998, a free spot opened up in the violin section for the orchestra’s China tour. Without calling for an open casting, the position automatically went to Preucil’s younger sister, Jeanne — Rose’s wife — despite the fact that she was not a member of the orchestra.
Members were outraged. “She went on a tour just because she was a sister of Preucil,” says Polyakin. This was Preucil’s way of getting his sister an advantage in future auditions. “Once she had one leg in, it was easy to get the other one in too,” Polyakin adds.
In January 1999, Jeanne was granted a full-time position in the orchestra.
Orchestra members began whispering about nepotism. The cries became more pronounced, however, when Preucil’s oldest daughter, Lexi, auditioned.
A reedy girl with her father’s eyes and her mother’s grace, Lexi had recently graduated from the Cleveland Institute of Music. In her studies, she’d showed promise as a violinist, though she’d never performed with a major orchestra outside of Cleveland.
Preucil’s daughter, along with twenty-some other musicians, auditioned for an open seat. Her tryout was judged by both father and uncle. Despite her youthfulness and inexperience, she was one of just six hopefuls to advance to the final round — even though she was one of the least impressive applicants, according to one member.
Ultimately, Lexi wasn’t given the spot, but her father has nonetheless found ways to get her onstage. On last summer’s European tour, Lexi was asked to fill the seat of a senior member out on maternity leave, leapfrogging more experienced members and outside performers for the prestigious position.
“It obviously has a high level of unfair written all over it,” says one member of the orchestra, who asked not to be named for fear of retribution from Preucil.
Preucil, for his part, denies that he has any influence over the selection process.
“The Music Director makes the hiring decisions and, like every member of an audition committee, I have no special status in the process nor any authority or influence over the Music Director’s decisions,” he wrote in an e-mail response to Scene‘s questions.
Hanson, the orchestra’s executive director, backs Preucil’s claim, saying in a written statement that “in no case has Bill Preucil or any other audition committee member held or attempted to hold undue influence over an audition outcome.”
But that doesn’t quiet the suspicions of some orchestra members, who wonder if anyone will have a chance of beating Lexi in the next audition.
“We’re starting to get a reputation: ‘Why should I fly out there?'” one orchestra member says.
All of this has given rise to questions about whether Preucil has too much influence over the prestigious institution. Says one orchestra member: “If you took an anonymous poll today, 85 percent of the orchestra would say Preucil has too much power.”
Employees of the Cleveland Orchestra and CIM have long talked about Preucil’s affinity for female students. His gaze, they claim, lingers a bit too long on a woman’s chest. His comments are a bit too sexually charged for the teacher-student relationship.
“Preucil and his girls — oh God, yeah, he’s legendary for it,” says one member of the orchestra, who didn’t want his name used.
In 2004, one such “girl” came forward with specific accusations. The woman, whose name Scene is withholding to protect her identity, had been a student of Preucil’s since her freshman year.
Junior year had been a tough one for her. According to multiple sources close to the student, she and her boyfriend had just broken up, and she was feeling insecure emotionally and musically.
Preucil provided his student with the confidence she needed. He took a fatherly interest in her, taking her to dinner and giving her private lessons to boost her confidence, her friends claim. The woman was grateful for the personal attention.
But the relationship changed after the young violinist was chosen to appear in a student-faculty recital alongside Preucil, her friends say. During a private rehearsal for the show, Preucil overtly hit on the young woman, rubbing himself against her and making a lewd advance.
Shaken, the woman went to the dean and president of the school, her friends say. A deal was struck. In return for the woman’s silence, the school would transfer her to another teacher’s studio. At the end of the year, it would pay for her to audition and fly out to other music schools. It would also pay for her education at the school she chose. The deal was good, however, only if she kept it confidential. It is for this reason, sources say, that the woman couldn’t speak to Scene.
School spokespeople will neither deny nor confirm the allegations.
“We don’t respond to rumors,” says Susan Schwartz. Pressed to provide a better explanation, she says, “When a rule is broken . . . we handle it internally. It’s kept confidential for many reasons . . . If it’s taken care of, why would the student want people to know; why harm a faculty member needlessly?”
The next week, CIM e-mailed an official statement from the president, David Cerone, which reads in part: “The Cleveland Institute of Music is exceptionally sensitive to the welfare of its students and is thoroughly committed to providing a safe and comfortable working and learning environment for all of its constituents . . . When any issues are brought to the attention of the CIM administration, it has consistently taken prompt, immediate and decisive action to gather the facts and confidentially resolve the matter in full accordance with CIM’s published policies.”
The woman now attends a prominent music school on the East Coast.
People questioned about the scenario weren’t surprised at the idea of Preucil, a married man, flirting with a student.
Preucil, for his part, doesn’t deny the allegations regarding the student. In response to a question left on his answering machine, he sent an e-mail that read: “With respect to your question regarding my work at CIM, I can only presume that the rumors you hear are based on an incident that occurred a few years ago when there was a dispute over the nature of an interaction I had with a student. The issue was fully reviewed by the institution and was resolved to everyone’s satisfaction.”
Arrogance and entitlement have a price. Some members of the Cleveland Orchestra feel that the cost has gotten too high. They believe Preucil needs to be reined in.
As a world-famous violinist, Preucil often travels the country giving private lessons and holding solo recitals. It’s a way to increase his spotlight and fatten his wallet. But it also means that Preucil is often absent from Cleveland. This hurts not only his own playing, but that of the section he’s supposed to be leading, members say.
“Bill travels as much as any conductor,” says one orchestra member, who didn’t want to be named. “Just like a conductor, he’s here only 12 or 13 weeks. He’s on a plane the rest of the time. And when he’s here, he’s not really here.”
Members worry about the future of the orchestra, especially with the way that auditions are being run. Not only does Preucil favor family members at auditions, he also favors his students — many of whom have never played in a major orchestra.
“We’ve been lucky so far,” says the orchestra member. “A lot of people see ‘Cleveland audition,’ and they roll their eyes. They know there’s no screen here, that something weird’s going on, and they won’t try out.”
Additionally, there’s the problem of money. During the past six years, the orchestra has lost 5 of its top 10 corporate bankrollers. Ticket sales have stalled, The New Yorker reported in 2005.
Meanwhile, Preucil was the top-paid concertmaster in the country during the 2002-2003 season. The average concertmaster salary was $190,113. Preucil made more than three times that.
“If he’s going to be paid so much and have so much power, he needs to be here a lot more,” another member grouses.
But orchestra administrators dismiss these concerns.
“Bill is a great leader of the Cleveland Orchestra,” Hanson says. “He came here with a style of playing that fit in beautifully.”
And despite the allegations of misconduct, CIM says it has no plans to get rid of Preucil.
“I can’t predict the future,” says Schwartz. “But I don’t believe there’s any reason we would ask him to leave.”
In the end, the music community is an insular world. For orchestra members to speak out publicly against one of their own is considered a betrayal. After the CIM student stepped forward with her accusations against Preucil, she was ostracized by peers, her friends say. She still worries that her career will be forever sullied if her name is outed.
Meanwhile, on a recent Friday night, the orchestra members played a sweeping, two-hour concert. Through it all, William Preucil sat front and center. When the performance was over, the conductor shook Preucil’s hand, as is usual, to acknowledge his leadership. Preucil looked briefly toward the audience. The applause was thunderous.
This article appears in Feb 14-20, 2007.
Ridiculous one sided article. Not a coincidence that so many quotes come from 2 of the most appalling, self centered, bitter musicians from the Cleveland Orchestra ( Polyakin and Aaron).
Ridiculous one sided article. Not a coincidence that so many quotes come from 2 of the most appalling, self centered, bitter musicians from the Cleveland Orchestra ( Polyakin and Aaron).
Clearly, the author of the article is more concerned about sensational journalism and scandalous gossip than reality. The article is overtly one-sided. To purport that the Cleveland Orchestra is a unique example of favoritism-tinged, unfair audition practice is absurd: Research much? Minnesota Orchestra and countless others do not screen auditions. Such are the ways of the world.
It is interesting that a person so traumatized by ‘unwanted advances’ would yet be so willing to divulge identity-confirming details and publicly, needlessly, and brazenly attempt to smear one of the most gifted concertmasters in the world solely for personal profit. A woman truly vicitmized by an unwanted advance would not desire to share the incident with any and all readily available audience; she would move on with her life and try to stay as far away from the situation as possible.
Let us think: How does this “expose” benefit the accusers in question?!
Clearly, the author of the article is more concerned about sensational journalism and scandalous gossip than reality. The article is overtly one-sided. To purport that the Cleveland Orchestra is a unique example of favoritism-tinged, unfair audition practice is absurd: Research much? Minnesota Orchestra and countless others do not screen auditions. Such are the ways of the world.
It is interesting that a person so traumatized by ‘unwanted advances’ would yet be so willing to divulge identity-confirming details and publicly, needlessly, and brazenly attempt to smear one of the most gifted concertmasters in the world solely for personal profit. A woman truly vicitmized by an unwanted advance would not desire to share the incident with any and all readily available audience; she would move on with her life and try to stay as far away from the situation as possible.
Let us think: How does this “expose” benefit the accusers in question?!
Bravo to Rebecca Meiser for coming forward with an article that was long overdue. Yes, it may have been a little one-sided, but people are scared of LOSING THEIR JOBS if they speak out. We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship, and apparently, a lot of money and power brings out characteristics in people that should never be shown.
Lewd advances and sexual propositions are not only inappropriate, but also illegal and wrong. They should not be allowed to continue. Enough said.
Bravo to Rebecca Meiser for coming forward with an article that was long overdue. Yes, it may have been a little one-sided, but people are scared of LOSING THEIR JOBS if they speak out. We live in a democracy, not a dictatorship, and apparently, a lot of money and power brings out characteristics in people that should never be shown.
Lewd advances and sexual propositions are not only inappropriate, but also illegal and wrong. They should not be allowed to continue. Enough said.
This article is a prime example of unsubstantiated journalism. How can such slander be published? Where do you get your sources? How often do you quote out of context?
The writing is sophomoric at best, inane at worst.
Did the editor proofread this article?
Did the reporter do any research?
To whomever wrote the article: Did you go to school? And if so, where?
One wonders these days why American journalism is not respected worldwide: it is because of articles like these that are based on rumors and blatant lies that people have lost interest in the media.
This article is a prime example of unsubstantiated journalism. How can such slander be published? Where do you get your sources? How often do you quote out of context?
The writing is sophomoric at best, inane at worst.
Did the editor proofread this article?
Did the reporter do any research?
To whomever wrote the article: Did you go to school? And if so, where?
One wonders these days why American journalism is not respected worldwide: it is because of articles like these that are based on rumors and blatant lies that people have lost interest in the media.
To suggest that Steve Rose got his job due to anything but exceptional playing and leadership is ridiculous. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree with this insinuation…which is no doubt why there is no quote from any orchestra member to back it up.
To suggest that Steve Rose got his job due to anything but exceptional playing and leadership is ridiculous. You would be hard pressed to find anyone who would agree with this insinuation…which is no doubt why there is no quote from any orchestra member to back it up.
This article is ridiculous. Never before have I seen such outlandish slander towards one a great teachers and performers. Obviously alot of your information was taken from the frivolous gossip that students talk about in any conservatory and about ANY faculty member,(rumors don’t just spread in cleveland and they are not just about mr. preucil, you just chose to attack him ,because , after all, wouldn’t that be a great story? to make mince meat of one of the world’s greatest musicians??) Your statements have no factual evidence and “one studen claims” and “one orchestra member says” does NOT cut it. If you are going to do such horrible things to someones reputation, you may as well write articles about all of the gossip that goes on about everybody else, such as The Philadelphia Orchestra’s musicians, The New York Philharmonic’s, etc…because you will find filthy gossip everywhere and it is only immature, greedy-for -attention people like you that will have the guts to write about the lies that you hear and try to ruin someone for it, all for the sake of your precious meaningless paper….and as for him having too much power, I have studied under Stephen Rose and as guidance to me as a musician he has told me about the process of orchestral auditions and how they are run in cleveland, and it is ALWAYS up to the musical director, and even if you had proof that there were politics involved in some of the assignments, there are politics everywhere and writing an outrageous article towards one musician is not going to do anything about it.
This article is ridiculous. Never before have I seen such outlandish slander towards one a great teachers and performers. Obviously alot of your information was taken from the frivolous gossip that students talk about in any conservatory and about ANY faculty member,(rumors don’t just spread in cleveland and they are not just about mr. preucil, you just chose to attack him ,because , after all, wouldn’t that be a great story? to make mince meat of one of the world’s greatest musicians??) Your statements have no factual evidence and “one studen claims” and “one orchestra member says” does NOT cut it. If you are going to do such horrible things to someones reputation, you may as well write articles about all of the gossip that goes on about everybody else, such as The Philadelphia Orchestra’s musicians, The New York Philharmonic’s, etc…because you will find filthy gossip everywhere and it is only immature, greedy-for -attention people like you that will have the guts to write about the lies that you hear and try to ruin someone for it, all for the sake of your precious meaningless paper….and as for him having too much power, I have studied under Stephen Rose and as guidance to me as a musician he has told me about the process of orchestral auditions and how they are run in cleveland, and it is ALWAYS up to the musical director, and even if you had proof that there were politics involved in some of the assignments, there are politics everywhere and writing an outrageous article towards one musician is not going to do anything about it.
I heard about this when it went down, and Bill even admitted to an incident occurring. I have first hand knowledge of Lexi (what a dumb name) and her lack of skill – getting through auditions. People dont seem to recognize what a big deal it is that someone with no orchestral experience was selected for the Cleveland orchestra. This orchestra deserves to go bankrupt along with the rest of cleveland.
I heard about this when it went down, and Bill even admitted to an incident occurring. I have first hand knowledge of Lexi (what a dumb name) and her lack of skill – getting through auditions. People dont seem to recognize what a big deal it is that someone with no orchestral experience was selected for the Cleveland orchestra. This orchestra deserves to go bankrupt along with the rest of cleveland.
Just a few points.
1. The only person who “votes” on a Cleveland Orchestra audition committee is the music director. Having eighteen relatives on the committee would not change the vote.
2. Could the critics have treated Preucil as if he walked on water because what he does musically and how he does it is different and amazing and exquisite?
3. How many other families of touring musicians choose to stay home during tours instead of uprooting their children to a life of hotel rooms, tour buses and planes and unfamiliar cities?
4. How many other orchestra members play cards to pass the time while out of town?
5. One of the musicians who was quoted, Lev Polyakin, has recently been demoted from his titled chair back into the section. Could he be at all bitter and biased?
6. Don’t most famous violinists travel – and get paid for it? Don’t most extraordinarily talented humans beings get paid more than the norm for what they do?
7. How often is Preucil gone from the orchestra compared to concertmasters from other major orchestras? I doubt it’s much more – if not even less – than others in similar orchestras with similar positions.
8. Most orchestras are losing funding and ticket sales across the country are down. Is that Bill Preucil’s fault as well?
9. Is it really good journalism to attack Preucil’s 22-year-old daughter? Really? What exactly has she done wrong to deserve such slander?
I studied with Steve Rose for two years at CIM. That man is a CLASS ACT. He is a great leader, a fantastic violinist, and one of the most genuine and kind people I have ever met. The weirdness that goes on with the Preucil family, or for that matter, many executive musicians, is no revelation to people in the buisness. However, I would like to state that Steve Rose is a dynamite violinist, a caring father, and a wonderful person, and I have 2 years of first-hand experience to back it up. Anyone who has had contact with his playing will tell you that he DOES NOT need anyone’s help getting a job on the highest levels, and I think it’s wrong to make uneducated insinuations. Owning a printing press doesn’t license slander.
Secondly, would people PLEASE leave Lexi out of this! Comment #2: Speaking as a violinist who is performing for a living, if someone handed me a job in Cleveland you better believe I’d take it. If her father is pulling strings for her, fine, criticize him. Don’t attack her personally for taking an opportunity which is presented to her through no fault of her own.
I studied with Steve Rose for two years at CIM. That man is a CLASS ACT. He is a great leader, a fantastic violinist, and one of the most genuine and kind people I have ever met. The weirdness that goes on with the Preucil family, or for that matter, many executive musicians, is no revelation to people in the buisness. However, I would like to state that Steve Rose is a dynamite violinist, a caring father, and a wonderful person, and I have 2 years of first-hand experience to back it up. Anyone who has had contact with his playing will tell you that he DOES NOT need anyone’s help getting a job on the highest levels, and I think it’s wrong to make uneducated insinuations. Owning a printing press doesn’t license slander.
Secondly, would people PLEASE leave Lexi out of this! Comment #2: Speaking as a violinist who is performing for a living, if someone handed me a job in Cleveland you better believe I’d take it. If her father is pulling strings for her, fine, criticize him. Don’t attack her personally for taking an opportunity which is presented to her through no fault of her own.
Regarding Comment #8. “A woman truly vicitmized by an unwanted advance would not desire to share the incident with any and all readily available audience; she would move on with her life and try to stay as far away from the situation as possible.” What gives you the right to speak for this victimized woman? “Move on with her life” ?!?! So if YOU were a victim of a crime and the criminal was “gifted” you should have no power in the situation – no option but to ignore it and let the criminal continue his ways, possibly hurting more women along the way? Kudos to this woman, for risking her career to expose this indecency, and to Meiser for telling a story everyone else was too scared to tell.
Regarding Comment #8. “A woman truly vicitmized by an unwanted advance would not desire to share the incident with any and all readily available audience; she would move on with her life and try to stay as far away from the situation as possible.” What gives you the right to speak for this victimized woman? “Move on with her life” ?!?! So if YOU were a victim of a crime and the criminal was “gifted” you should have no power in the situation – no option but to ignore it and let the criminal continue his ways, possibly hurting more women along the way? Kudos to this woman, for risking her career to expose this indecency, and to Meiser for telling a story everyone else was too scared to tell.
What a sorry piece of “journalism” this is. It’s as if the author followed some formula for sensationalistic writing. Choose a public and successful figure and slander him by quoting liberally from anonymous sources. Follow all supportive remarks made by respected figures with a “But…” and paragraphs of unsubstantiated claims. Mix in a healthy dose of irrelevant observations (He plays poker! GASP!), and oh, let’s not forget the requisite hot-button issue. Sexual harassment is a serious issue, and it deserves more thorough treatment than simply quoting friends of the accuser and saying “People…weren’t surprised at the idea.” Don’t journalism majors have to take classes in ethics?
I’m grateful to those who have commented on the way things work in the music world with regard to auditions and travel. Unfortunately, it can’t compensate for a reporter who chooses to start with her own agenda and can’t be bothered to do her research.
What a sorry piece of “journalism” this is. It’s as if the author followed some formula for sensationalistic writing. Choose a public and successful figure and slander him by quoting liberally from anonymous sources. Follow all supportive remarks made by respected figures with a “But…” and paragraphs of unsubstantiated claims. Mix in a healthy dose of irrelevant observations (He plays poker! GASP!), and oh, let’s not forget the requisite hot-button issue. Sexual harassment is a serious issue, and it deserves more thorough treatment than simply quoting friends of the accuser and saying “People…weren’t surprised at the idea.” Don’t journalism majors have to take classes in ethics?
I’m grateful to those who have commented on the way things work in the music world with regard to auditions and travel. Unfortunately, it can’t compensate for a reporter who chooses to start with her own agenda and can’t be bothered to do her research.
It is curious that the on-going situation with Mr. Preucil (and his involvement with students) is WELL known outside of Cleveland and CIM. I am located a number of States away. Perhaps not the best piece of journalism, but lets not shoot the messenger for reporting a bad situation… Ditto to #9 above! Enough is enough. What an abuse of the teacher student relationship.
It is curious that the on-going situation with Mr. Preucil (and his involvement with students) is WELL known outside of Cleveland and CIM. I am located a number of States away. Perhaps not the best piece of journalism, but lets not shoot the messenger for reporting a bad situation… Ditto to #9 above! Enough is enough. What an abuse of the teacher student relationship.
Folks, folks…does anyone remember the article in the Seattle Weekly about the Orchestra that created such a war on the comment board there? This almost humorous attempt at journalism is just a little trick to draw attention to a nobody who’s trying to make themselves look like a somebody…writing outragous (but convincing to the uneducated, apparently) fiction and quoting mysteriously anonymous people. Instead of being pissed about the article, why not just save your energy – all we’re probably dealing with here is someone (Miss Journalist) who can’t cope with the fact that there’s someoneout there (Mr. Concertmaster) who does his job 500 times better than she’ll ever do hers…
…and maybe that’s the case with Mr. Faculty down there too.
Folks, folks…does anyone remember the article in the Seattle Weekly about the Orchestra that created such a war on the comment board there? This almost humorous attempt at journalism is just a little trick to draw attention to a nobody who’s trying to make themselves look like a somebody…writing outragous (but convincing to the uneducated, apparently) fiction and quoting mysteriously anonymous people. Instead of being pissed about the article, why not just save your energy – all we’re probably dealing with here is someone (Miss Journalist) who can’t cope with the fact that there’s someoneout there (Mr. Concertmaster) who does his job 500 times better than she’ll ever do hers…
…and maybe that’s the case with Mr. Faculty down there too.
Bravo to the writer Rebecca Meiser for this gritty journalism. I don’t think the writing itself is Shakespearesque or Faulkneresque in any way, but we are not reading this article to induldge in the beauty of the English language.
The article serves a very good purpose in exposing apparent nepotism in this orchestra. Scandalous behavior happens in many great orchestras across this country (especially on tours). This story is the only one we’ve just heard about as of late.
To all the dumb union goon musicians that do not like this article: all it does is state the facts. 1) Since Bill has become Concertmaster, 3 of his family members have joined the orchestra — one of them apparently without a formal audition. 2) Bill’s daughter was sent to the next round in an audition over some auditionees — some of whom according to other orchestral members, were superior players to her. 3) Cleveland Orchestra auditions with the screen down, to #12 most top level orchestras do in fact have a screen at auditions. The Minnesota Orchestra does use a screen except for cello auditions, which leads me to believe you are a cellist and know nothing about the violin audition process. 4) Bill himself, did not deny he hit on this female student, and settled out of court.
This question goes to the critics of the article, is it a coincidence that 3 family members of Bill (brother in law, daughter, sister) play in the orchestra? Even his firmest supporters quite frankly would have to answer “no” to that question.
I think Bill is a wonderful player and Concertmaster, however when certain people are handed power as he has been, they want more and more.
Bravo to the writer Rebecca Meiser for this gritty journalism. I don’t think the writing itself is Shakespearesque or Faulkneresque in any way, but we are not reading this article to induldge in the beauty of the English language.
The article serves a very good purpose in exposing apparent nepotism in this orchestra. Scandalous behavior happens in many great orchestras across this country (especially on tours). This story is the only one we’ve just heard about as of late.
To all the dumb union goon musicians that do not like this article: all it does is state the facts. 1) Since Bill has become Concertmaster, 3 of his family members have joined the orchestra — one of them apparently without a formal audition. 2) Bill’s daughter was sent to the next round in an audition over some auditionees — some of whom according to other orchestral members, were superior players to her. 3) Cleveland Orchestra auditions with the screen down, to #12 most top level orchestras do in fact have a screen at auditions. The Minnesota Orchestra does use a screen except for cello auditions, which leads me to believe you are a cellist and know nothing about the violin audition process. 4) Bill himself, did not deny he hit on this female student, and settled out of court.
This question goes to the critics of the article, is it a coincidence that 3 family members of Bill (brother in law, daughter, sister) play in the orchestra? Even his firmest supporters quite frankly would have to answer “no” to that question.
I think Bill is a wonderful player and Concertmaster, however when certain people are handed power as he has been, they want more and more.
Response to Comment #4: Do not assume to know that I or anyone close to me has not been a vicitm of an unwanted advance. “Move on with her life” is not synonymous for “get over it, big deal.” Powerful/ gifted individuals ought not to be excused of indecent activities nor should they be afforded special treatement. However, it is not farfetched to consider that individuals in places of power, regarded as leaders, are often the target of merciless attacks desgned to diminish their position; attacks which are motivated by greed.
I don’t claim to know with certainity the verity of any claims, as my knowledge of any events is purely heresay. I merely challenge readers to question the ‘proof’ set forward in this, lets face it, entertainment “news” magazine (free) before dismissing completely any of the individuals mentioned within. There are TWO sides to every story, and this report clearly EMBELLISHES only one.
The author deserves no praise. The unsubstantiated evidence and unresearched insinutations are the hallmark of a poor writer grasping at straws in an attempt to elevate her own status.
Response to Comment #4: Do not assume to know that I or anyone close to me has not been a vicitm of an unwanted advance. “Move on with her life” is not synonymous for “get over it, big deal.” Powerful/ gifted individuals ought not to be excused of indecent activities nor should they be afforded special treatement. However, it is not farfetched to consider that individuals in places of power, regarded as leaders, are often the target of merciless attacks desgned to diminish their position; attacks which are motivated by greed.
I don’t claim to know with certainity the verity of any claims, as my knowledge of any events is purely heresay. I merely challenge readers to question the ‘proof’ set forward in this, lets face it, entertainment “news” magazine (free) before dismissing completely any of the individuals mentioned within. There are TWO sides to every story, and this report clearly EMBELLISHES only one.
The author deserves no praise. The unsubstantiated evidence and unresearched insinutations are the hallmark of a poor writer grasping at straws in an attempt to elevate her own status.
To comment #1, it does sound to me as if Bill had a relationship with this woman, he then ended it and then this lady went to the proper authorities to seek revenge to get what she wanted, and that was dinero ($$$$$$$$$$$$). Many women in this situation would back down, feeling even shamed for having been a part of such a thing. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. It is obvious that there is nepotism in this institution, that cannot be disputed.
To comment #1, it does sound to me as if Bill had a relationship with this woman, he then ended it and then this lady went to the proper authorities to seek revenge to get what she wanted, and that was dinero ($$$$$$$$$$$$). Many women in this situation would back down, feeling even shamed for having been a part of such a thing. The truth lies somewhere in the middle. It is obvious that there is nepotism in this institution, that cannot be disputed.
Response to Comment #4: Do not assume to know that I or anyone close to me has not been a vicitm of an unwanted advance. “Move on with her life” is not synonymous for “get over it, big deal.” Powerful/ gifted individuals ought not to be excused of indecent activities nor should they be afforded special treatement. However, it is not farfetched to consider that individuals in places of power, regarded as leaders, are often the target of merciless attacks desgned to diminish their position; attacks which are motivated by greed.
I don’t claim to know with certainity the verity of any claims, as my knowledge of any events is purely heresay. I merely challenge readers to question the ‘proof’ set forward in this, lets face it, entertainment “news” magazine (free) before dismissing completely any of the individuals mentioned within. There are TWO sides to every story, and this report clearly EMBELLISHES only one.
The author deserves no praise. The unsubstantiated evidence and unresearched insinutations are the hallmark of a poor writer grasping at straws in an attempt to elevate her own status.
Response to Comment #4: Do not assume to know that I or anyone close to me has not been a vicitm of an unwanted advance. “Move on with her life” is not synonymous for “get over it, big deal.” Powerful/ gifted individuals ought not to be excused of indecent activities nor should they be afforded special treatement. However, it is not farfetched to consider that individuals in places of power, regarded as leaders, are often the target of merciless attacks desgned to diminish their position; attacks which are motivated by greed.
I don’t claim to know with certainity the verity of any claims, as my knowledge of any events is purely heresay. I merely challenge readers to question the ‘proof’ set forward in this, lets face it, entertainment “news” magazine (free) before dismissing completely any of the individuals mentioned within. There are TWO sides to every story, and this report clearly EMBELLISHES only one.
The author deserves no praise. The unsubstantiated evidence and unresearched insinutations are the hallmark of a poor writer grasping at straws in an attempt to elevate her own status.
Correction for #3:
For the sake of accuracy, Lev Polyakin has not been demoted and retains his title of assistant concertmaster.
Perhaps the writer was confused by the recent and controversial creation of a new position labeled “first associate concertmaster” ,
which would if anything impact the duties of the present associate concertmaster only.
Correction for #3:
For the sake of accuracy, Lev Polyakin has not been demoted and retains his title of assistant concertmaster.
Perhaps the writer was confused by the recent and controversial creation of a new position labeled “first associate concertmaster” ,
which would if anything impact the duties of the present associate concertmaster only.
Rebecca Meiser did a very thorough job of reporting on Mr. Preucil’s role at the Cleveland Orchestra. It is about time someone revealed what really goes on behind closed doors!!!
Rebecca Meiser did a very thorough job of reporting on Mr. Preucil’s role at the Cleveland Orchestra. It is about time someone revealed what really goes on behind closed doors!!!
Bravo to Ms. Meiser on a superb job of doing her job of reporting the facts. It is a shame hat people can non face reality regarding their comments. Ms. Meiser was only doing her job, and a job well done. I find nepotism to be despicable and the fact that he earns three times the average salary even more despicable. Auditions not behind screens, speaking of bias??? I think Ms. Meiser should be applauded on a job well done.
Bravo to Ms. Meiser on a superb job of doing her job of reporting the facts. It is a shame hat people can non face reality regarding their comments. Ms. Meiser was only doing her job, and a job well done. I find nepotism to be despicable and the fact that he earns three times the average salary even more despicable. Auditions not behind screens, speaking of bias??? I think Ms. Meiser should be applauded on a job well done.
i thought this was a very insightful article; well-written and very informative. as with all big businesses or corprorations, there’s always power play, so it really wasn’t surprising that the orchestra is any different. i do, however, feel that a “screen” should without question be a part of the audition process. we need to keep the cleveland orchestra what it truly is — the cleveland orchestra.
i thought this was a very insightful article; well-written and very informative. as with all big businesses or corprorations, there’s always power play, so it really wasn’t surprising that the orchestra is any different. i do, however, feel that a “screen” should without question be a part of the audition process. we need to keep the cleveland orchestra what it truly is — the cleveland orchestra.
To the Writer:
This article made me sick.
I’m very sorry I read it.
The writing is trash and you know it.
P.S. Is your real name Rita Skeeter?
To the Writer:
This article made me sick.
I’m very sorry I read it.
The writing is trash and you know it.
P.S. Is your real name Rita Skeeter?
The fact that he makes 3 times the average is bogus. His salary from the orchestra, was in the 360,000 range in 2002-2003. Strad magazine just did a report on it. And it was very similar to that of the other top concertmasters. Either this reporter is so dumb she cant due math, or just a liar. Frankly, i am of the opinion that she is both. And the reason he makes more then the average concertmaster is because he is a whole hell of a lot better.
On another note, Bill Preucil plays circles around Lev Polyakin. Lev recently gave a recital at CIM. Maybe he should have left Beethoven “Kreutzer” sonata off the program, because it was horrendously out of tune. The same was true years back when he played Ravel Tzigane. It was also interesting Lev play Mahler 5 a couple months ago, because if you looked closely his fingers weren’t moving on any of the difficult passages. Weird.
Cheers!
Yellow journalism.
Aside from the criticism that comes before mine, with which I largely agree, there’s a greater negligence here: Cleveland is a hard-knock town, and the Orchestra is one of its only well-known assets. For the sake of a tabloid article, the author has slashed the face and tarnished the reputation of one of the most revered arts institutions in the world, also Cleveland’s lone international ambassador. I’m just glad this will never see wider print.
Sure, if there were a justice to pursue here, publish the article. But adultery, nepotism, lack of ethics — these are not news, are indeed universal problems, and cannot be resolved by crappy journalism. These are dirty-laundry problems that organizations have to address themselves. This article empowers no one and will change no administrator’s mind.
If you don’t love Cleveland more than your own pride, go stalk around another town and type up their trash. You’re just bringing us down. There’s a giant gulf between tabloid and justice, and a journalist committed to his or her city should seek to improve it through challenging discourse, not shit on it with sloppy craftsmanship.
Yellow journalism.
Aside from the criticism that comes before mine, with which I largely agree, there’s a greater negligence here: Cleveland is a hard-knock town, and the Orchestra is one of its only well-known assets. For the sake of a tabloid article, the author has slashed the face and tarnished the reputation of one of the most revered arts institutions in the world, also Cleveland’s lone international ambassador. I’m just glad this will never see wider print.
Sure, if there were a justice to pursue here, publish the article. But adultery, nepotism, lack of ethics — these are not news, are indeed universal problems, and cannot be resolved by crappy journalism. These are dirty-laundry problems that organizations have to address themselves. This article empowers no one and will change no administrator’s mind.
If you don’t love Cleveland more than your own pride, go stalk around another town and type up their trash. You’re just bringing us down. There’s a giant gulf between tabloid and justice, and a journalist committed to his or her city should seek to improve it through challenging discourse, not shit on it with sloppy craftsmanship.
It seems that the facts brought out by this article speak for themselves-an unusual number of family members selected,audition methods tempting bias, an undenied incident of harassment. Good journalism exposes that which may be considered controversial-and this well written article has simply by stated some thus far undenied truths. Good job.
It seems that the facts brought out by this article speak for themselves-an unusual number of family members selected,audition methods tempting bias, an undenied incident of harassment. Good journalism exposes that which may be considered controversial-and this well written article has simply by stated some thus far undenied truths. Good job.
Poor “Scene.” The article, its advocates and its critics make this publication look like a tabloid magazine.
Poor “Scene.” The article, its advocates and its critics make this publication look like a tabloid magazine.
Wow – all of those people out there slamming Ms. Meiser and her article – I didn’t realize Mr. Preucil had that many relatives!!! Come on folks, look at the facts. How many other major city orchestras have this many family members in it? Just a coincidence? Hello? I have thoroughly enjoyed Ms. Meiser’s prior work, and she justly deserves the journalism awards she’s earned. Don’t shoot the messenger – do something about the problem.
Wow – all of those people out there slamming Ms. Meiser and her article – I didn’t realize Mr. Preucil had that many relatives!!! Come on folks, look at the facts. How many other major city orchestras have this many family members in it? Just a coincidence? Hello? I have thoroughly enjoyed Ms. Meiser’s prior work, and she justly deserves the journalism awards she’s earned. Don’t shoot the messenger – do something about the problem.
The Music Director, not the concertmaster, chooses who wins jobs in orchestras. Orchestral experience and age are not prerequisites for winning a position in a major orchestra. The very nature of an orchestral audition is to test one’s current level of playing, not to evaluate one’s experience. It is often beneficial to hire a player whose style of playing is complementary to the section leader, so it is not at all uncommon in orchestras across the country for students of orchestra players to be hired as substitute players, and eventually to win jobs.
I have worked professionally with members of the Preucil family for 20 years in recitals, and as a soloist with The Cleveland Orchestra. William Preucil and Stephen Rose are both acknowledged throughout the country as outstanding artists in leadership positions. I have played chamber music with Jeanne Preucil Rose and Lexi Preucil and they are both exceptional violinists. How wonderful for The Cleveland Orchestra and for them that they can make music together. (When I say “The Cleveland Orchestra” I am referring to the orchestra as a whole, not the few embittered individuals who apparently fueled this article.)
Finally, the CIM issue is history, not news.
So what was the point of this article exactly? It has certainly succeeded in drawing attention to the author.
The Music Director, not the concertmaster, chooses who wins jobs in orchestras. Orchestral experience and age are not prerequisites for winning a position in a major orchestra. The very nature of an orchestral audition is to test one’s current level of playing, not to evaluate one’s experience. It is often beneficial to hire a player whose style of playing is complementary to the section leader, so it is not at all uncommon in orchestras across the country for students of orchestra players to be hired as substitute players, and eventually to win jobs.
I have worked professionally with members of the Preucil family for 20 years in recitals, and as a soloist with The Cleveland Orchestra. William Preucil and Stephen Rose are both acknowledged throughout the country as outstanding artists in leadership positions. I have played chamber music with Jeanne Preucil Rose and Lexi Preucil and they are both exceptional violinists. How wonderful for The Cleveland Orchestra and for them that they can make music together. (When I say “The Cleveland Orchestra” I am referring to the orchestra as a whole, not the few embittered individuals who apparently fueled this article.)
Finally, the CIM issue is history, not news.
So what was the point of this article exactly? It has certainly succeeded in drawing attention to the author.
This is a very good article. I do not know much info about the Orchestra side of the story, but I know more than enough about the CIM side. I personally know a handful of Preucil victims. I fully understand why people do not talk publicly about this situation. He has too much power. I think there is also a deeply rooted problem at CIM, aside from Mr. Preucil himself. This institution has decided to cover up each and every one of his “sexual” situations with students. It is CIM’s policy, as stated by David Cerone, that ANY situation such as this will be dealt with confidentially. Nobody knows, nobody questions, and only a few get hurt. They employ a sexual predator. It is CIM’s policy that should also be judged here. For the sake of every future female Precuil student, CIM should be forced to share repeat sexual advances such as these to the student body, just as they do any other imminent safety/security threat. A one time offense is not excuseable for Mr. Preucil, but for CIM I could understand that they would not feel the need to share information with the entire student body. After a few offenses, I think the institution should take a second look at the policy of confidentiality for the respect of current and future students.
By and large CIM is an amazing institution, however it is choosing to allow a predator to hunt.
This is a very good article. I do not know much info about the Orchestra side of the story, but I know more than enough about the CIM side. I personally know a handful of Preucil victims. I fully understand why people do not talk publicly about this situation. He has too much power. I think there is also a deeply rooted problem at CIM, aside from Mr. Preucil himself. This institution has decided to cover up each and every one of his “sexual” situations with students. It is CIM’s policy, as stated by David Cerone, that ANY situation such as this will be dealt with confidentially. Nobody knows, nobody questions, and only a few get hurt. They employ a sexual predator. It is CIM’s policy that should also be judged here. For the sake of every future female Precuil student, CIM should be forced to share repeat sexual advances such as these to the student body, just as they do any other imminent safety/security threat. A one time offense is not excuseable for Mr. Preucil, but for CIM I could understand that they would not feel the need to share information with the entire student body. After a few offenses, I think the institution should take a second look at the policy of confidentiality for the respect of current and future students.
By and large CIM is an amazing institution, however it is choosing to allow a predator to hunt.
This article is written in poor taste. Not only do you victimize the victim yet again, you add a new victim, Bill Preucil’s daughter. Why would you want her to pay for her father’s ill-doing? The article would have a lot more credibility if there was actually a reliable source or factual evidence rather than heresay. As to quoting anonymous supposed “friends” of the victim: what true close friends would actually talk to the press about a truly private matter? None. Therefore, the sources clearly are not close to the victim, and it explains why some of the course of events portrayed in this article regarding the student are incorrect. Also, why all the information? Why don’t you go ahead an include other unnecessary facts like what toothpaste she likes. Yea, that would help get into the psychi of the victim. Since when did you get a degree in psychology and decide to psycho-analyze her emotions both then and now? I think the National Enquirer is looking for a new reporter.
This article is written in poor taste. Not only do you victimize the victim yet again, you add a new victim, Bill Preucil’s daughter. Why would you want her to pay for her father’s ill-doing? The article would have a lot more credibility if there was actually a reliable source or factual evidence rather than heresay. As to quoting anonymous supposed “friends” of the victim: what true close friends would actually talk to the press about a truly private matter? None. Therefore, the sources clearly are not close to the victim, and it explains why some of the course of events portrayed in this article regarding the student are incorrect. Also, why all the information? Why don’t you go ahead an include other unnecessary facts like what toothpaste she likes. Yea, that would help get into the psychi of the victim. Since when did you get a degree in psychology and decide to psycho-analyze her emotions both then and now? I think the National Enquirer is looking for a new reporter.
Wow–I never thought this story would be told. I think it’s incredibly horrendous that this is acceptable behavior and the Cleveland Orchestra and CIM continue to employ someone with this history. He can play the violin, yes. This is not a “turn your cheek the other way” situation, though because of his ability on the violin. Musicians are paying big bucks to go to CIM and don’t need to worry about a person of power or their teacher’s intentions. They are there to study the violin and have him help them to advance in their careers. It is an extremely competitive business and can be very hard on one’s emotional well-being–this sort of behavior that he portrays as a leader is not to be forgiven. Thank you for this article. I don’t care if it seems “gossipy”–it’s true. This story is based on FACTS. Now, will someone please do something about his position?
Wow–I never thought this story would be told. I think it’s incredibly horrendous that this is acceptable behavior and the Cleveland Orchestra and CIM continue to employ someone with this history. He can play the violin, yes. This is not a “turn your cheek the other way” situation, though because of his ability on the violin. Musicians are paying big bucks to go to CIM and don’t need to worry about a person of power or their teacher’s intentions. They are there to study the violin and have him help them to advance in their careers. It is an extremely competitive business and can be very hard on one’s emotional well-being–this sort of behavior that he portrays as a leader is not to be forgiven. Thank you for this article. I don’t care if it seems “gossipy”–it’s true. This story is based on FACTS. Now, will someone please do something about his position?
I am absoluetly, utterly sickened by this horrendous, slandering article. I know every person you have mentioned in this article- concertmaster, daughter, and “anonymous” student. About the student first of all, she is a loving, incredible woman who NEVER had a relationship with Preucil. So to anyone who thinks so, you’re simply %100 wrong. The matter was taken care of and I feel for her that this was brought up in such a tasteless manner. This reporter did nothing to protect the victim.
Now, onto Lexi. She is a kind-hearted person who never in a million years deserved this slander. She is not a member of The Cleveland Orchestra. She does play as a substitute which last time I checked was not against any rules, especually since she did so well in the last audition.
And finally, Bill Preucil might slouch when he leads this world class orchestra, but he is not C shaped! My point is that this article is indeed total gossip and this reporter took legend and rumor and found ways to misquote and slander innocent people. If her goal was to speak ill of William Preucil, she failed. All people come away with in this article are thoughts of lexi and the student. I believe fiction writing would be a much better suited career choice.
I am absoluetly, utterly sickened by this horrendous, slandering article. I know every person you have mentioned in this article- concertmaster, daughter, and “anonymous” student. About the student first of all, she is a loving, incredible woman who NEVER had a relationship with Preucil. So to anyone who thinks so, you’re simply %100 wrong. The matter was taken care of and I feel for her that this was brought up in such a tasteless manner. This reporter did nothing to protect the victim.
Now, onto Lexi. She is a kind-hearted person who never in a million years deserved this slander. She is not a member of The Cleveland Orchestra. She does play as a substitute which last time I checked was not against any rules, especually since she did so well in the last audition.
And finally, Bill Preucil might slouch when he leads this world class orchestra, but he is not C shaped! My point is that this article is indeed total gossip and this reporter took legend and rumor and found ways to misquote and slander innocent people. If her goal was to speak ill of William Preucil, she failed. All people come away with in this article are thoughts of lexi and the student. I believe fiction writing would be a much better suited career choice.
Jon Kimura Parker said, “Finally, the CIM issue is history, not news.
So what was the point of this article exactly? It has certainly succeeded in drawing attention to the author.”
Jon how can you be so blase about this whole situation. If it was your daughter would you feel the same way and say it “is history” and we should just move on and not realize this man could perhaps be a predator? The author of this article doing Cleveland and perspective CIM female students a service. Jon I think you are a big hypocrite that wants to score some more points with the Preucils if they read your shit posting and have them recommend you for another gig. Everyone can spot a brown noser a mile away – you are a genuine fool. Just shut up and go practice your piano.
#2 the whole point of bringing up “Lexi” is to point out the apparent nepotism in this orchestra. Anyone with trained ears who has heard her knows she is a mediocre at best violinist. There are tons of 14 year old Korean kids that play circles around Lexi. Lexi is in the Cleveland Orchestra for the same reason her aunt is according to the Assistant Concertmaster Lev Polyakin; because she is a Preucil and no other reason.
Jon Kimura Parker said, “Finally, the CIM issue is history, not news.
So what was the point of this article exactly? It has certainly succeeded in drawing attention to the author.”
Jon how can you be so blase about this whole situation. If it was your daughter would you feel the same way and say it “is history” and we should just move on and not realize this man could perhaps be a predator? The author of this article doing Cleveland and perspective CIM female students a service. Jon I think you are a big hypocrite that wants to score some more points with the Preucils if they read your shit posting and have them recommend you for another gig. Everyone can spot a brown noser a mile away – you are a genuine fool. Just shut up and go practice your piano.
#2 the whole point of bringing up “Lexi” is to point out the apparent nepotism in this orchestra. Anyone with trained ears who has heard her knows she is a mediocre at best violinist. There are tons of 14 year old Korean kids that play circles around Lexi. Lexi is in the Cleveland Orchestra for the same reason her aunt is according to the Assistant Concertmaster Lev Polyakin; because she is a Preucil and no other reason.
If the writer meant to bring discontent among the musicians of one of the greatest musical institutions on our planet, she underestimates the musical integrity of the musicians of The Cleveland Orchestra. One reason The Cleveland Orchestra is as great as it is, is because the Music Director, and the Music Director alone, has the responsibility for maintaining the greatness of the ensemble, not a group of anonymous musicians casting anonymous votes for an anonymous player behind a screen. The great orchestras – whether it be Szell’s Cleveland, Ormandy’s Philadelphia or Stokowski’s NBC – were all formed the same way. Can you imagine a football team being formed by the teammates voting on who should play?
If the writer meant to bring discontent among the musicians of one of the greatest musical institutions on our planet, she underestimates the musical integrity of the musicians of The Cleveland Orchestra. One reason The Cleveland Orchestra is as great as it is, is because the Music Director, and the Music Director alone, has the responsibility for maintaining the greatness of the ensemble, not a group of anonymous musicians casting anonymous votes for an anonymous player behind a screen. The great orchestras – whether it be Szell’s Cleveland, Ormandy’s Philadelphia or Stokowski’s NBC – were all formed the same way. Can you imagine a football team being formed by the teammates voting on who should play?
Although what you say in the article may have some validity – and I know it does – choosing to present it in such a way does nothing to help the credibility of your story. One of the first rules of journalism is being honest and telling the story in an accurate way, and you’re clearly more interested in sensationalism, relying on anonymous quotes and concervatory gossip to fuel the fire. Shame on you for ruining your chance.
Although what you say in the article may have some validity – and I know it does – choosing to present it in such a way does nothing to help the credibility of your story. One of the first rules of journalism is being honest and telling the story in an accurate way, and you’re clearly more interested in sensationalism, relying on anonymous quotes and concervatory gossip to fuel the fire. Shame on you for ruining your chance.
Anon don’t compare the Preucil family orchestra to the NBC Symphony. It takes some nerve to do that. You sound like an absolute idiot. This is not the same Cleveland Orchestra that had Josef Gingold as Concertmaster and George Szell as Music Director; it is a far cry from that my tone deaf friend.
The article is all facts — if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. The article was written with consent from the student who was harassed by Bill. Some of you musicians are too thick to realize this girl might want to stay anonymous so insensitive and biased people like you and the Preucils don’t vote against her at competitions and auditions. Think about that for a moment, it’s people like you who need to conduct auditions with the screens down, because you’d rather hire a family member than a more highly qualified candidate who plays in tune. The proof is in the pudding.
There is a shitload of more highly qualified candidates than Jeanne Preucil and Lexi. As I stated before, there are 14 year old Asian kids that play better than any Preucil including Bill. He should watch out, no one is invisible, there’s going to be some hot shit violinist that comes along and plays 10x better than him, and the music director might want to hire that person.
To sum it up this is precisely why the Boston Symphony, and the LA Phil will be much superior ensembles for many decades to come due to this current regime in Cleveland. Time for a new Concertmaster for the Cleveland Orchestra.
Anon don’t compare the Preucil family orchestra to the NBC Symphony. It takes some nerve to do that. You sound like an absolute idiot. This is not the same Cleveland Orchestra that had Josef Gingold as Concertmaster and George Szell as Music Director; it is a far cry from that my tone deaf friend.
The article is all facts — if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. The article was written with consent from the student who was harassed by Bill. Some of you musicians are too thick to realize this girl might want to stay anonymous so insensitive and biased people like you and the Preucils don’t vote against her at competitions and auditions. Think about that for a moment, it’s people like you who need to conduct auditions with the screens down, because you’d rather hire a family member than a more highly qualified candidate who plays in tune. The proof is in the pudding.
There is a shitload of more highly qualified candidates than Jeanne Preucil and Lexi. As I stated before, there are 14 year old Asian kids that play better than any Preucil including Bill. He should watch out, no one is invisible, there’s going to be some hot shit violinist that comes along and plays 10x better than him, and the music director might want to hire that person.
To sum it up this is precisely why the Boston Symphony, and the LA Phil will be much superior ensembles for many decades to come due to this current regime in Cleveland. Time for a new Concertmaster for the Cleveland Orchestra.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? These are serious accusations, yes, but I in fact know every single person named in this article, and see misquotes and slanderous hearsay. Rumors as the basis of a journalistic article? True or not, such writing benefits in fact nobody. Serious issues of course must see the light of day. Who wouldn’t like to be judged by anything other than substantiated facts? It is alarming how this is degrading into a witchhunt and how people are delighting in this matter. I see that people are alternately applauding and decrying the writer and the writing. Who cares? It has nothing to do with the fact that this matter cannot be resolved without real answers. All sorts of people come here claiming to know the “100% truth, the REAL FACTS.” How do we really know? These are people’s lives we are talking about. Jumping to conclusions? Innocent until proven guilty. Let the law decide.
Whatever happened to innocent until proven guilty? These are serious accusations, yes, but I in fact know every single person named in this article, and see misquotes and slanderous hearsay. Rumors as the basis of a journalistic article? True or not, such writing benefits in fact nobody. Serious issues of course must see the light of day. Who wouldn’t like to be judged by anything other than substantiated facts? It is alarming how this is degrading into a witchhunt and how people are delighting in this matter. I see that people are alternately applauding and decrying the writer and the writing. Who cares? It has nothing to do with the fact that this matter cannot be resolved without real answers. All sorts of people come here claiming to know the “100% truth, the REAL FACTS.” How do we really know? These are people’s lives we are talking about. Jumping to conclusions? Innocent until proven guilty. Let the law decide.
I think it is horrible that such obvious sexist behavior is still evident, especially in a cultural environment where I personally expect more from the individuals involved in the profession. I understand artist perseive themselves as invincible because of the talents they may bring to the world, but this discrimination should not be tolerated let alone be rewarded by his large salary or regonition given by local and academic communities.
I think it is horrible that such obvious sexist behavior is still evident, especially in a cultural environment where I personally expect more from the individuals involved in the profession. I understand artist perseive themselves as invincible because of the talents they may bring to the world, but this discrimination should not be tolerated let alone be rewarded by his large salary or regonition given by local and academic communities.
From Atlanta to Cleveland there have been no mysteries about Mr. Preucil’s tendancies. They are well know in the music world but always have been hidden from the general public. So FINALLY, finally, they are out, so be it. The arts are being destroyed today by greed, power, sex and mismanagement. I don’t care how well Mr.Preucil plays, music does not need such power abuse. Let Mr. Preucil pursue a solo career and let him put his family and sweethearts with blown dryed hair on the cover of his solo records. Get him out of arts institutions already struggling for quality. Stop protecting people like him and save the institutions. Finally let us come to our senses and side with the little man, the lonely honest musician who has the courage to expose it.
From Atlanta to Cleveland there have been no mysteries about Mr. Preucil’s tendancies. They are well know in the music world but always have been hidden from the general public. So FINALLY, finally, they are out, so be it. The arts are being destroyed today by greed, power, sex and mismanagement. I don’t care how well Mr.Preucil plays, music does not need such power abuse. Let Mr. Preucil pursue a solo career and let him put his family and sweethearts with blown dryed hair on the cover of his solo records. Get him out of arts institutions already struggling for quality. Stop protecting people like him and save the institutions. Finally let us come to our senses and side with the little man, the lonely honest musician who has the courage to expose it.
Wow…i had no idea how tense things were in the orchrastra…i was going to comment about the story told until i saw all the comments posted after the fact…yikes…some seem very concerned that such an individual would be in such high power when obviously has issues when it comes to respecting women…i guess that sentence shows my opinion is with the article…but it seems as though there is already tension between the orchestra members and CIM…it’s a shame that more people are not concerned about the future well being of female students working to gain an education, but instead are more concerned with the furtherment of there own professional careers or public opinions of their organization. How selfish.
Wow…i had no idea how tense things were in the orchrastra…i was going to comment about the story told until i saw all the comments posted after the fact…yikes…some seem very concerned that such an individual would be in such high power when obviously has issues when it comes to respecting women…i guess that sentence shows my opinion is with the article…but it seems as though there is already tension between the orchestra members and CIM…it’s a shame that more people are not concerned about the future well being of female students working to gain an education, but instead are more concerned with the furtherment of there own professional careers or public opinions of their organization. How selfish.
As a fan of The Cleveland Orchestra for decades, I’m concerned by these serious accusations. There is obviously some truth to them, and for the good of the orchestra, must be taken seriously. The response from orchestra management reminds me of the catholic church. Is any concertmaster so brilliant that he is worth risking the reputation of the ensemble on? As far as the “screenless auditions” that supposedly are evidence of the C.O’s excellence, well that hangs all on the quality, knowledge and integrity of the music director. Obviously George Szell knew how to hire players and was very definitely influenced by no one. Can the same be said about Mr. Möst? The players that made up the 1965 Cleveland Orchestra were of an entirely different breed than todays musicians. Is there enough care and real knowledge being brought to the audition process, or can a weak music director be influenced or manipulated by his players? If the Cleveland Orchestra really wants to be competitive with its former self and stop riding on its glorious past, it needs to stop being so defensive and start asking itself some real questions. Cleaning up is part of that course.
As a fan of The Cleveland Orchestra for decades, I’m concerned by these serious accusations. There is obviously some truth to them, and for the good of the orchestra, must be taken seriously. The response from orchestra management reminds me of the catholic church. Is any concertmaster so brilliant that he is worth risking the reputation of the ensemble on? As far as the “screenless auditions” that supposedly are evidence of the C.O’s excellence, well that hangs all on the quality, knowledge and integrity of the music director. Obviously George Szell knew how to hire players and was very definitely influenced by no one. Can the same be said about Mr. Möst? The players that made up the 1965 Cleveland Orchestra were of an entirely different breed than todays musicians. Is there enough care and real knowledge being brought to the audition process, or can a weak music director be influenced or manipulated by his players? If the Cleveland Orchestra really wants to be competitive with its former self and stop riding on its glorious past, it needs to stop being so defensive and start asking itself some real questions. Cleaning up is part of that course.
The Cleveland Orchestra has been my favorite orchestra for so many years. I have delighted in its musical excellence and incredible legacy in recordings. I, however have to aknowledge to you that the quality of the playing has gone down. Cleveland used to show
how well it could play even under an average guest . Today second rate conductors are engaged, the playing has suffered and honestly, I even wonder about the choice of its appointed music directors in the recent years. In reading this article I was somewhat appalled that all was kept secret of Mr. Preucil’s abusive conduct for so long. One of our best institutions, the CIM being at the heart of it. I, for example thought that Maestro James Levine’s ( however famous) should have been let go at the MET in New York upon proof of pedophilia . There is no excuse for management to allow that kind of conduct ever, and it certainly has no place in education. Great artists are NOT exempt of responsability. But it strikes me that the reason why this article came out now is because Mr.Preucil is also manipulating the audition process and therefore threatening the quality of the Cleveland Orchestra. Should this be a fact, I would have to undoubtedly side with the musicians who are courageously breaking ranks and trying to protect the musical integrity of the ensemble. Management should be impressed by them and not by the likes of Mr. Preucil.
The Cleveland Orchestra has been my favorite orchestra for so many years. I have delighted in its musical excellence and incredible legacy in recordings. I, however have to aknowledge to you that the quality of the playing has gone down. Cleveland used to show
how well it could play even under an average guest . Today second rate conductors are engaged, the playing has suffered and honestly, I even wonder about the choice of its appointed music directors in the recent years. In reading this article I was somewhat appalled that all was kept secret of Mr. Preucil’s abusive conduct for so long. One of our best institutions, the CIM being at the heart of it. I, for example thought that Maestro James Levine’s ( however famous) should have been let go at the MET in New York upon proof of pedophilia . There is no excuse for management to allow that kind of conduct ever, and it certainly has no place in education. Great artists are NOT exempt of responsability. But it strikes me that the reason why this article came out now is because Mr.Preucil is also manipulating the audition process and therefore threatening the quality of the Cleveland Orchestra. Should this be a fact, I would have to undoubtedly side with the musicians who are courageously breaking ranks and trying to protect the musical integrity of the ensemble. Management should be impressed by them and not by the likes of Mr. Preucil.
Gary Hanson, start listening to your public!!! The great Cleveland Orchestra is in disarray. How about that? Get the hint and get a strong music director so we can start hearing and talking about great music not these petty repercussions of weak leadership.
Gary Hanson, start listening to your public!!! The great Cleveland Orchestra is in disarray. How about that? Get the hint and get a strong music director so we can start hearing and talking about great music not these petty repercussions of weak leadership.
This article should be used to induce vomiting in hospitals. I really am shocked at how horribly bad it is. Of course we’re all talking about it, and sensationalism was clearly the motive of the moron who wrote it, and the little birds who sang in his ear. The Cleveland Orchestra is full of arrogant and self centered musicians eager to proclaim over and over that they are the greatest orchestra in the world so it is no surprise that this kind of hubris and abuse of power exists there. Everybody in our field knew about this stuff before this article, its nothing new. Cleveland’s got a pretty good orchestra, the concertmaster likes young women, he gets paid a lot, what a shock.
This article should be used to induce vomiting in hospitals. I really am shocked at how horribly bad it is. Of course we’re all talking about it, and sensationalism was clearly the motive of the moron who wrote it, and the little birds who sang in his ear. The Cleveland Orchestra is full of arrogant and self centered musicians eager to proclaim over and over that they are the greatest orchestra in the world so it is no surprise that this kind of hubris and abuse of power exists there. Everybody in our field knew about this stuff before this article, its nothing new. Cleveland’s got a pretty good orchestra, the concertmaster likes young women, he gets paid a lot, what a shock.
This article is absolutely ridiculous. Not only is it full of lies about Bill, the slander on his daughter is just horrible. I have had the opportunity to hear Lexi play, and she is absolutely amazing. The orchestra is lucky to have her sub with them. As far as the auditions go, it is the music director who chooses, and him only. Lexi got as far as she did because the director thought the way she played would be well suited in the orchestra. This is how all major orchestras work; If you go to their institution, you have a much higher chance of getting into that orchestra simply because you have been trained in that style.
As for the accusations against Bill, they just make me sick! I have been around Bill a lot, and never have I, or anyone I know, felt that way about him. He is an amazing man, concertmaster, friend and father, who would never do a thing like that. I do not know the details on the case, but it seems to be like the way CIM dealt with it was the best way. While the claims seemed pretty obvious it was misunderstanding, siding with the person filing the claims is the respectable thing to do, and Mr. Preucil is a respectable man. So why is he now being critisized for it? Gossip is awful, and has turned everything into a great mess. People who like to gossip can ruin their own lives, but they have no right to come in and do this to such an amazing family who has never done anything to deserve this. They have done so much for the music world, and this is how they are thanked? Luckily, the people who know the truth are far greater than the ones making up these nasty lies.
This article is absolutely ridiculous. Not only is it full of lies about Bill, the slander on his daughter is just horrible. I have had the opportunity to hear Lexi play, and she is absolutely amazing. The orchestra is lucky to have her sub with them. As far as the auditions go, it is the music director who chooses, and him only. Lexi got as far as she did because the director thought the way she played would be well suited in the orchestra. This is how all major orchestras work; If you go to their institution, you have a much higher chance of getting into that orchestra simply because you have been trained in that style.
As for the accusations against Bill, they just make me sick! I have been around Bill a lot, and never have I, or anyone I know, felt that way about him. He is an amazing man, concertmaster, friend and father, who would never do a thing like that. I do not know the details on the case, but it seems to be like the way CIM dealt with it was the best way. While the claims seemed pretty obvious it was misunderstanding, siding with the person filing the claims is the respectable thing to do, and Mr. Preucil is a respectable man. So why is he now being critisized for it? Gossip is awful, and has turned everything into a great mess. People who like to gossip can ruin their own lives, but they have no right to come in and do this to such an amazing family who has never done anything to deserve this. They have done so much for the music world, and this is how they are thanked? Luckily, the people who know the truth are far greater than the ones making up these nasty lies.
Mr.Preucil’s friends and enamoured students should shut up. They are making fools of themselves.
Mr.Preucil’s friends and enamoured students should shut up. They are making fools of themselves.
Bravo to the author for this necessary article. Bill Preucil is a pig. He plays like a pig and acts like a pig around women. He also acts like a pig with respect to his duties in the cleveland Orchestra – with his salary exceeding that of other concertmasters who ARE indeed more committed (spending more than 12 or 13 weeks a year in their jobs) and exhibit more professionalism and fairness in dealing with their colleagues. His playing is cheap – I stopped listening to the Cleveland Quartet after hearing a concert where he slid around the violin like a pig and showed no understanding for the style and structure of music by Beethoven and Schubert. Having participated in many leading music festivals during my student days at the Curtis Institute and Juilliard School, there was always much discussion about Preucil and the overt nepotism shown in the hiring of his brother-in-law and sister for the orchestra. Steve Rose is a fine player, Jeanne Preucil-Rose is not. I do feel sorry for Lexi; she is a confused and emotionally complex young woman, most likely as a result of her father’s behavioral example. Also, I personally know women who have been vicitimized by Preucil either verbally, or in two cases, physically. Is that not completely inappropriate? All of the “former” and “anonymous” CIM students need to immediately detach their lips from Preucil’s anus and ask themselves, “Would George Szel have allowed this pigsty in his orchestra?
Bravo to the author for this necessary article. Bill Preucil is a pig. He plays like a pig and acts like a pig around women. He also acts like a pig with respect to his duties in the cleveland Orchestra – with his salary exceeding that of other concertmasters who ARE indeed more committed (spending more than 12 or 13 weeks a year in their jobs) and exhibit more professionalism and fairness in dealing with their colleagues. His playing is cheap – I stopped listening to the Cleveland Quartet after hearing a concert where he slid around the violin like a pig and showed no understanding for the style and structure of music by Beethoven and Schubert. Having participated in many leading music festivals during my student days at the Curtis Institute and Juilliard School, there was always much discussion about Preucil and the overt nepotism shown in the hiring of his brother-in-law and sister for the orchestra. Steve Rose is a fine player, Jeanne Preucil-Rose is not. I do feel sorry for Lexi; she is a confused and emotionally complex young woman, most likely as a result of her father’s behavioral example. Also, I personally know women who have been vicitimized by Preucil either verbally, or in two cases, physically. Is that not completely inappropriate? All of the “former” and “anonymous” CIM students need to immediately detach their lips from Preucil’s anus and ask themselves, “Would George Szel have allowed this pigsty in his orchestra?
curtis violin all you have done in this forum is insult first class pianists and other respected musicians. You should worry yourself about giving curtis a bad name. I strongly suggest you get out of this forum, or at least start using language that is more appropriate than calling someone an “idiot.” Go back to 1st grade.
curtis violin all you have done in this forum is insult first class pianists and other respected musicians. You should worry yourself about giving curtis a bad name. I strongly suggest you get out of this forum, or at least start using language that is more appropriate than calling someone an “idiot.” Go back to 1st grade.
Kaiser, If anyone has the right to comment on this article it is the students of the people involved.
Kaiser, If anyone has the right to comment on this article it is the students of the people involved.
Regarding comment #25, you have to think about this. Think hard here…Preucil DOES make 3X the average of concertmaster in orchestra. Sure, the top five orchestras will be close in salary, but average…(average is the KEY word here) in orchestras in the USA. I would say go to the Adaptistration website written by Drew McManus. He just did a compensation report on concertmaster salary. You will witness, with your very own eyes, the salary ‘average’ and the other top paid concertmaster salaries. It also has music director, average player salary and executive director pay as well.
Regarding comment #25, you have to think about this. Think hard here…Preucil DOES make 3X the average of concertmaster in orchestra. Sure, the top five orchestras will be close in salary, but average…(average is the KEY word here) in orchestras in the USA. I would say go to the Adaptistration website written by Drew McManus. He just did a compensation report on concertmaster salary. You will witness, with your very own eyes, the salary ‘average’ and the other top paid concertmaster salaries. It also has music director, average player salary and executive director pay as well.
Daniel Majeske was most certainly not a womanizer and he was beyond a doubt committed to The orchestra, but lets not forget that there was a time when, if a candidate was a Born Again Christian, it certainly could help tip the scales at an audition when it came to his or Bob Vernon’s input. This power abuse is not new, but it’s not right either. But in the end, where is the real blame? Whose letting this stuff happen. A fish stinks from the head. Kaiser may be crude but he’s right. George Szell would never had allowed this crap in his Cleveland Orchestra.
Daniel Majeske was most certainly not a womanizer and he was beyond a doubt committed to The orchestra, but lets not forget that there was a time when, if a candidate was a Born Again Christian, it certainly could help tip the scales at an audition when it came to his or Bob Vernon’s input. This power abuse is not new, but it’s not right either. But in the end, where is the real blame? Whose letting this stuff happen. A fish stinks from the head. Kaiser may be crude but he’s right. George Szell would never had allowed this crap in his Cleveland Orchestra.
I don’t know anything about this. I’ve read this article and heard the rumors as well from various individuals. There are lots of opinions on the matter(especially here in this comment section). I think the Cleveland Orchestra is a great orchestra. I think Preucil is a ridiculous player and concertmaster. CIM’s a good school.
What happened with Preucil and this female student is unknown. Everyone is of course welcome to assume whatever they would like. If you are an attractive female student interested in studying with Preucil, perhaps think twice. As for what goes on in the orchestra, why don’t we leave that to the orchestra musicians. Auditions for Cleveland Orchestra? If you think its unfair, don’t audition.
I don’t know anything about this. I’ve read this article and heard the rumors as well from various individuals. There are lots of opinions on the matter(especially here in this comment section). I think the Cleveland Orchestra is a great orchestra. I think Preucil is a ridiculous player and concertmaster. CIM’s a good school.
What happened with Preucil and this female student is unknown. Everyone is of course welcome to assume whatever they would like. If you are an attractive female student interested in studying with Preucil, perhaps think twice. As for what goes on in the orchestra, why don’t we leave that to the orchestra musicians. Auditions for Cleveland Orchestra? If you think its unfair, don’t audition.
To the canaries of the Cleveland Orchestra, Keep singing my friends!!! It’s about time for this well known song gets sung. YOU ROCK!!!
To the canaries of the Cleveland Orchestra, Keep singing my friends!!! It’s about time for this well known song gets sung. YOU ROCK!!!
From a lawyer’s point of view, your problem seems far more complicated than Mr.Preucil’s behaviour. It is being allowed!
From a lawyer’s point of view, your problem seems far more complicated than Mr.Preucil’s behaviour. It is being allowed!
To Jamie (the current #4), At your recommendation, I just visited the Adaptistration website to view salaray comparisons. According to the website that YOU recommended, the average concertmaster salaray is $185,651 and Cleveland paid Mr. Preucil $370,154. I’m sorry, I went to CIM so I’m good at the violin, not math, but please explain to me just exactly HOW that is 3 times as much. Go ahead, I’ll wait here.
That being said, this article is pretty much a farce. Wake me up when something newsworthy happens.
To Jamie (the current #4), At your recommendation, I just visited the Adaptistration website to view salaray comparisons. According to the website that YOU recommended, the average concertmaster salaray is $185,651 and Cleveland paid Mr. Preucil $370,154. I’m sorry, I went to CIM so I’m good at the violin, not math, but please explain to me just exactly HOW that is 3 times as much. Go ahead, I’ll wait here.
That being said, this article is pretty much a farce. Wake me up when something newsworthy happens.
It is fitting that for once this over-rated orchestra is being exposed for what it really is: a private club for debateably talented, arrogant egomaniacs where music making is secondary to philandering and backstabbing.
It is fitting that for once this over-rated orchestra is being exposed for what it really is: a private club for debateably talented, arrogant egomaniacs where music making is secondary to philandering and backstabbing.
It looks like even this third-rate rag is making the orchestra more well known…I guess enquiring minds want to know!
It looks like even this third-rate rag is making the orchestra more well known…I guess enquiring minds want to know!
Let’s take a look at all of these comments: all of the professional musicians below (bar one out-of-the-loop individual) are hardly surprised by this behavior, and supportive of an article (albeit without tabloid sensationalism) shedding light on what’s happening at Severance and CIM. His students are standing by him til death…hypocrisy, if you ask me.
Let’s clear up the matter, and replace the two people running the orch currently without integrity with others.
Cheers.
Let’s take a look at all of these comments: all of the professional musicians below (bar one out-of-the-loop individual) are hardly surprised by this behavior, and supportive of an article (albeit without tabloid sensationalism) shedding light on what’s happening at Severance and CIM. His students are standing by him til death…hypocrisy, if you ask me.
Let’s clear up the matter, and replace the two people running the orch currently without integrity with others.
Cheers.
Considering that Maestro Welser-Möst’s contract extends many more years and considering that the Cleveland Orchestra management and Artistic Director could not address this issue and put their heads in the sand we could have a disaster on our hands. As a member of the paying public I would be outraged.
Sincerely,
Considering that Maestro Welser-Möst’s contract extends many more years and considering that the Cleveland Orchestra management and Artistic Director could not address this issue and put their heads in the sand we could have a disaster on our hands. As a member of the paying public I would be outraged.
Sincerely,
As a symphony orchestra conductor and an educator I find Mr. Pruecil’s actions reprehensible. One act of nepotism, especially at a time when excellent musicians in America are having such difficulty finding decent employment, is one too many — to say nothing of the four such acts he has arranged. One act of sexual involvement with a student is one too many in any circumstance. Officials at CIM and the Musical Arts
Association should condem him in a public manner. Also, the person who wrote that Lev
had been demoted is simply wrong. There has not, nor should there have been,any such
demotion. This matter of attempting to shift blame sounds much like President Bush
and his underlings as they attempt to justify their illegal actions.
As a symphony orchestra conductor and an educator I find Mr. Pruecil’s actions reprehensible. One act of nepotism, especially at a time when excellent musicians in America are having such difficulty finding decent employment, is one too many — to say nothing of the four such acts he has arranged. One act of sexual involvement with a student is one too many in any circumstance. Officials at CIM and the Musical Arts
Association should condem him in a public manner. Also, the person who wrote that Lev
had been demoted is simply wrong. There has not, nor should there have been,any such
demotion. This matter of attempting to shift blame sounds much like President Bush
and his underlings as they attempt to justify their illegal actions.
Enjoyed reading the well-written article by Rebecca Meiser. I think her purpose was to inform the reader. I always enjoy her colorful use of language. I recently read in Newsweek that more and more orchestras are choosing people by using screens.
Thanks to all the one-sided comments from the anonymous students!!
Enjoyed reading the well-written article by Rebecca Meiser. I think her purpose was to inform the reader. I always enjoy her colorful use of language. I recently read in Newsweek that more and more orchestras are choosing people by using screens.
Thanks to all the one-sided comments from the anonymous students!!
I was shocked at Susan Schwartz’s comments in your article. What about the needless harming of a student? I would expect management of any university to protect me from such abuse. The Board of Directors of CIM and of the Cleveland Orchestra should take the matter to heart.
Sincerely,
Susan
I was shocked at Susan Schwartz’s comments in your article. What about the needless harming of a student? I would expect management of any university to protect me from such abuse. The Board of Directors of CIM and of the Cleveland Orchestra should take the matter to heart.
Sincerely,
Susan
“I am missing you (..) This is due not only to your superb artistry, but to your attitude towards your work, which is part of this artistry, to your artistic responsibility, discrimination, and sound self criticism…” – George Szell, September 27, 1962, to the members of The Cleveland Orchestra.
I guess Mr. Preucil would not have made it.
“I am missing you (..) This is due not only to your superb artistry, but to your attitude towards your work, which is part of this artistry, to your artistic responsibility, discrimination, and sound self criticism…” – George Szell, September 27, 1962, to the members of The Cleveland Orchestra.
I guess Mr. Preucil would not have made it.
Well..I am not surprised to hear all the information about the auditions and unfair screening policies. As a violist, I am amazed at how many of Bob Vernon’s, (Principal Violist), students have been given spots in the viola section..and right out of school!
At the last viola audition, my resume was denied for a SECTION AUDITION..I couldn’t believe it, as I have alot of experience, and have been playing in professional orchestras for many years, including some of the countries top orchestras..plus I had just been invited to audition for principal viola of SanFrancisco Symphony. Why do they even bother to advertise these viola spots, I thought. Yes..that orchestra has the worst reputaion for rigged auditions!
Well..I am not surprised to hear all the information about the auditions and unfair screening policies. As a violist, I am amazed at how many of Bob Vernon’s, (Principal Violist), students have been given spots in the viola section..and right out of school!
At the last viola audition, my resume was denied for a SECTION AUDITION..I couldn’t believe it, as I have alot of experience, and have been playing in professional orchestras for many years, including some of the countries top orchestras..plus I had just been invited to audition for principal viola of SanFrancisco Symphony. Why do they even bother to advertise these viola spots, I thought. Yes..that orchestra has the worst reputaion for rigged auditions!
Hi Dear Ones-
Thought you might be amused???
Outraged?????
Sue-how is your mom doing in her new home.
Love, to you both and Simon
Hi Dear Ones-
Thought you might be amused???
Outraged?????
Sue-how is your mom doing in her new home.
Love, to you both and Simon
I think that the only good thing to come out of this article was a rehasing of painful times for the people involved. In effect, all this article has done is make Bill Preucil the sacrificial lamb. The music world is full of people who take advantage of others, and all the this article has done is bring one man down at expense of his family, and cast stones on a good conservatory trying to produce quality students. It should have been left alone.
I think that the only good thing to come out of this article was a rehasing of painful times for the people involved. In effect, all this article has done is make Bill Preucil the sacrificial lamb. The music world is full of people who take advantage of others, and all the this article has done is bring one man down at expense of his family, and cast stones on a good conservatory trying to produce quality students. It should have been left alone.
Anon, you are a moron.
Anon, you are a moron.
Jennifer Ries’s comment is interesting coming from a professional musician who tried to play for The Cleveland Orchestra. Of course nepotism and corruption are everywhere and have been for a long time. Power corrupts, right? But this is the tip of the icerberg. Maybe a while back more talented people were at the helm, which provided us until yesterday with a legacy of competent artists, well… before the arts became a business and before anything could sell if packaged right. It’s all over folks, we have to get ready for Mac orchestras, Mac soloists, Mac auditioners and instrumentalists, Mac managers and it is not pretty! It seeems to me that there are still some players in the game, dedicated young people who would drop everything to go anywhere in the world to play in an orchestra and nepotism should not harm them. Would Fritz Reiner, George Szell, Arturo Toscanini have a career today ? If they discriminated they left us with more talent!!This is why and what we have to ask ourselves and Cleveland, CIM and the Cleveland Orchestra might be the right place at the right time for the shit to hit the fan.
Jennifer Ries’s comment is interesting coming from a professional musician who tried to play for The Cleveland Orchestra. Of course nepotism and corruption are everywhere and have been for a long time. Power corrupts, right? But this is the tip of the icerberg. Maybe a while back more talented people were at the helm, which provided us until yesterday with a legacy of competent artists, well… before the arts became a business and before anything could sell if packaged right. It’s all over folks, we have to get ready for Mac orchestras, Mac soloists, Mac auditioners and instrumentalists, Mac managers and it is not pretty! It seeems to me that there are still some players in the game, dedicated young people who would drop everything to go anywhere in the world to play in an orchestra and nepotism should not harm them. Would Fritz Reiner, George Szell, Arturo Toscanini have a career today ? If they discriminated they left us with more talent!!This is why and what we have to ask ourselves and Cleveland, CIM and the Cleveland Orchestra might be the right place at the right time for the shit to hit the fan.
Shame on you, David Cerone. The parents paying for the dinner on your table have put their daughters in your trust and you have allowed them to be playthings for those to whom you kowtow. Likewise to the artistic directors of the Cleveland Orchestra for so obviously allowing nepotism in the string sections. It’s been well known for years by students and professional musicians across the world that one must either be a Preucil or be a Vernon student to be guaranteed entry to the violin and viola sections of the Cleveland Orchestra. Denying the facts and “keeping matters confidential” may be the good ol’ boy tradition but doesn’t help anyone in the end. What goes around, comes around. Thank you, Rebecca Meiser, for bravely daring to tell the truth. Hopefully some long-needed purification will occur in both institutions.
Shame on you, David Cerone. The parents paying for the dinner on your table have put their daughters in your trust and you have allowed them to be playthings for those to whom you kowtow. Likewise to the artistic directors of the Cleveland Orchestra for so obviously allowing nepotism in the string sections. It’s been well known for years by students and professional musicians across the world that one must either be a Preucil or be a Vernon student to be guaranteed entry to the violin and viola sections of the Cleveland Orchestra. Denying the facts and “keeping matters confidential” may be the good ol’ boy tradition but doesn’t help anyone in the end. What goes around, comes around. Thank you, Rebecca Meiser, for bravely daring to tell the truth. Hopefully some long-needed purification will occur in both institutions.
ADDENDUM..After re-reading my comment, I wanted to add a couple of thoughts…I remember when I received word from the Cleveland Orchestra that I wasn’t invited to audition..well..I was angry..but it wasn’t because I thought..well surely I would win if given a chance..as all of us in this business know..auditions are a crap shoot, and there are many factors involved..but there is one thing for sure..if you are going to take an audition like that you have to have the goods, and work your butt off..and for many people you have to spend money for travel and lodging. I think my anger was more focused on the empathy for musicians who pay their union dues, work their butts off..play gigs where they are underpaid and overworked..and who have shall we say..”paid their dues” in this business..why should they do all that only to lose an audition to someone who has ..shall we say been groomed for the job, (the audition) by their teachers..I mean..you would think a great orchestra like Cleveland would want the best musicians..musicians who have something to say in their playing, and who have EXPERIENCE..It seems that doesn’t count for anything anymore in this field..plus we all know that hearing someone playing excerpts by themselves to judge whether they would blend well in an orchestra..well..it just doesn’t work..and on all the audition comittees I have been on..I never felt like I could get the information I really needed.
And as far as Mr Prucil’s inappropriate behavior..well..innocent until proven guilty..but if there is any evidence that this did happen, (which I hear through the musical grapevine..there is)..shame on you CIM!
ADDENDUM..After re-reading my comment, I wanted to add a couple of thoughts…I remember when I received word from the Cleveland Orchestra that I wasn’t invited to audition..well..I was angry..but it wasn’t because I thought..well surely I would win if given a chance..as all of us in this business know..auditions are a crap shoot, and there are many factors involved..but there is one thing for sure..if you are going to take an audition like that you have to have the goods, and work your butt off..and for many people you have to spend money for travel and lodging. I think my anger was more focused on the empathy for musicians who pay their union dues, work their butts off..play gigs where they are underpaid and overworked..and who have shall we say..”paid their dues” in this business..why should they do all that only to lose an audition to someone who has ..shall we say been groomed for the job, (the audition) by their teachers..I mean..you would think a great orchestra like Cleveland would want the best musicians..musicians who have something to say in their playing, and who have EXPERIENCE..It seems that doesn’t count for anything anymore in this field..plus we all know that hearing someone playing excerpts by themselves to judge whether they would blend well in an orchestra..well..it just doesn’t work..and on all the audition comittees I have been on..I never felt like I could get the information I really needed.
And as far as Mr Prucil’s inappropriate behavior..well..innocent until proven guilty..but if there is any evidence that this did happen, (which I hear through the musical grapevine..there is)..shame on you CIM!
Responding to the current #15, Yes, the average ICSOM concertmaster doesn’t make 3 times, but there are still the ROPA orchestras to consider (something even a CIM Alum violinist who can’t do math should be able to figure out.) The recommendation to go the the website was probably meant to make a point to the person who said:
“The fact that he makes 3 times the average is bogus. His salary from the orchestra, was in the 360,000 range in 2002-2003. Strad magazine just did a report on it. And it was very similar to that of the other top concertmasters. Either this reporter is so dumb she cant due math, or just a liar. Frankly, i am of the opinion that she is both. And the reason he makes more then the average concertmaster is because he is a whole hell of a lot better.”
I believe this person was trying to find the 3X salary among the top tier orchestra concertmasters.
Either way, this is not the point. The point is abuse of power, not salary.
Responding to the current #15, Yes, the average ICSOM concertmaster doesn’t make 3 times, but there are still the ROPA orchestras to consider (something even a CIM Alum violinist who can’t do math should be able to figure out.) The recommendation to go the the website was probably meant to make a point to the person who said:
“The fact that he makes 3 times the average is bogus. His salary from the orchestra, was in the 360,000 range in 2002-2003. Strad magazine just did a report on it. And it was very similar to that of the other top concertmasters. Either this reporter is so dumb she cant due math, or just a liar. Frankly, i am of the opinion that she is both. And the reason he makes more then the average concertmaster is because he is a whole hell of a lot better.”
I believe this person was trying to find the 3X salary among the top tier orchestra concertmasters.
Either way, this is not the point. The point is abuse of power, not salary.
Some good comments here and some very naive ones.
I don’t take pleasure in this kind of publicity of my alma mater or the orchestra I enjoyed as a student. I have most of the information I need to make my own judgements from what I have heard from reliable sources and what I gathered as a student at CIM in the late 90’s.
One thing I want to say is that I don’t think it is possible to question the integrity of principal violist Robert Vernon. Some of you have a problem with his students winning jobs in his section in Cleveland, but do you also have a problem with his students that win jobs in Boston, New York, Detroit, Saint Louis, Minnesota, and Chicago? Nearly every major orchestra in the country has a former student of Vernon’s in their viola section. The only problem people have with Bob Vernon’s students is that they are good.
Some good comments here and some very naive ones.
I don’t take pleasure in this kind of publicity of my alma mater or the orchestra I enjoyed as a student. I have most of the information I need to make my own judgements from what I have heard from reliable sources and what I gathered as a student at CIM in the late 90’s.
One thing I want to say is that I don’t think it is possible to question the integrity of principal violist Robert Vernon. Some of you have a problem with his students winning jobs in his section in Cleveland, but do you also have a problem with his students that win jobs in Boston, New York, Detroit, Saint Louis, Minnesota, and Chicago? Nearly every major orchestra in the country has a former student of Vernon’s in their viola section. The only problem people have with Bob Vernon’s students is that they are good.
To say that Steve Rose got his job because of Preucil is an outrage…Mr. Rose is a gem of the Cleveland Orchestra…
To say that Steve Rose got his job because of Preucil is an outrage…Mr. Rose is a gem of the Cleveland Orchestra…
..Responding to the recent posting by anon CIM grad..I don’t think anyone has problems with Bob Vernon’s students..or even his integrity as a teacher..In fact I have many friends who have worked with him..and I have played for him as well, and really enjoyed it..but again.. it’s an abuse of power in the audition and hiring process..that is where there is a lack of integrity…and for you not to see that..well, I think that is pretty naive.
..Responding to the recent posting by anon CIM grad..I don’t think anyone has problems with Bob Vernon’s students..or even his integrity as a teacher..In fact I have many friends who have worked with him..and I have played for him as well, and really enjoyed it..but again.. it’s an abuse of power in the audition and hiring process..that is where there is a lack of integrity…and for you not to see that..well, I think that is pretty naive.
Having been the recipient of unwanted advances from a teacher at, yes, another conservatory, I am disappointed in CIM. In my case as well, everything was hush-hush, and the teacher never worried about any repercussions. Lets be fair. In a university situation, these teachers would have been given 1 hour to pack their things. Its time to end the double standard.
Having been the recipient of unwanted advances from a teacher at, yes, another conservatory, I am disappointed in CIM. In my case as well, everything was hush-hush, and the teacher never worried about any repercussions. Lets be fair. In a university situation, these teachers would have been given 1 hour to pack their things. Its time to end the double standard.
The Cleveland Orchestra, not just Mr. Preucil,is well known to many musicians for choosing exclusively from its own students; I have heard from several people that auditions are not conducted in a fair manner. One could easily debate that this system is valid for maintaining the excellent standards of an orchestra. One needs look no further than the Vienna Phil. to see the truth of this. What sticks in the craw, however, is the hypocrisy of an institution that claims to have open and fair opportunity for all QUALIFIED candidates to gain employment and membership in such a famous and well paying institution. If they had the you-know-whats like the Vienna Phil. to be honest about their hiring procedure, many young,aspiring and excellent musicians would not waste their time and money auditioning there.
The Cleveland Orchestra, not just Mr. Preucil,is well known to many musicians for choosing exclusively from its own students; I have heard from several people that auditions are not conducted in a fair manner. One could easily debate that this system is valid for maintaining the excellent standards of an orchestra. One needs look no further than the Vienna Phil. to see the truth of this. What sticks in the craw, however, is the hypocrisy of an institution that claims to have open and fair opportunity for all QUALIFIED candidates to gain employment and membership in such a famous and well paying institution. If they had the you-know-whats like the Vienna Phil. to be honest about their hiring procedure, many young,aspiring and excellent musicians would not waste their time and money auditioning there.
Jennifer Ries: Were you groomed by your teacher to do anything besides complain? Apparently not.
Jennifer Ries: Were you groomed by your teacher to do anything besides complain? Apparently not.
Well..at least I have the courage to sign my own name when voicing my opinion..
Well..at least I have the courage to sign my own name when voicing my opinion..
wow he tried to tap it? shorty wasnt havin it tho…
wow he tried to tap it? shorty wasnt havin it tho…
I would like to state that Bill Preucil does harass his female students. I personally know some of these girls and what they went through. So, to all of you who think that this article is filled with just rumors you are unfortunately mistaken. I’m not saying that I think the article is well written or anything, just that, as far as his ongoing sexual misconduct is concerned, it is true.
I would like to state that Bill Preucil does harass his female students. I personally know some of these girls and what they went through. So, to all of you who think that this article is filled with just rumors you are unfortunately mistaken. I’m not saying that I think the article is well written or anything, just that, as far as his ongoing sexual misconduct is concerned, it is true.
Does anyone here know Bubkis? (see below)
Does anyone here know Bubkis? (see below)
In reponse to Ivan.
It is not possible to compare The Cleveland Orchestra to the Vienna Phil. Why?. Vienna, sure does hire its own but… it is a complete unique orchestra. They have their own instruments which gives them a totally unique sound. Noone outside of Vienna plays the Wiener pumping horn for example, the oboes are drastically different and the strings are their own sets of instruments which you are expected to play if you are chosen to join the ensemble. It is a phenomenal orchestra that has maintained its traditions, including up until very recently, not hiring women ( a painful birth! ), and they are superb in a very limited repertoire. I can guarantee you would be less than impressed to hear them play Petrushka, but of course as far as Brahms, Bruckner etc.. they are at home and it is indeed great.
Cleveland or any other american orchestra have other sets of demands. The requirements for musicans to join Vienna, I can assure you, are based solely on whether the candidate adheres to their Viennese musical traditions, and not because they are a Born again Christian or related to the concert master! So if you don’t play in these traditions, yes, there is no sense to apply for an audition there. But concerning Cleveland what’s your claim? If you are not Born Again or related to the concert master, as you say, ” don’t waste your time and money auditioning there ” ?
In reponse to Ivan.
It is not possible to compare The Cleveland Orchestra to the Vienna Phil. Why?. Vienna, sure does hire its own but… it is a complete unique orchestra. They have their own instruments which gives them a totally unique sound. Noone outside of Vienna plays the Wiener pumping horn for example, the oboes are drastically different and the strings are their own sets of instruments which you are expected to play if you are chosen to join the ensemble. It is a phenomenal orchestra that has maintained its traditions, including up until very recently, not hiring women ( a painful birth! ), and they are superb in a very limited repertoire. I can guarantee you would be less than impressed to hear them play Petrushka, but of course as far as Brahms, Bruckner etc.. they are at home and it is indeed great.
Cleveland or any other american orchestra have other sets of demands. The requirements for musicans to join Vienna, I can assure you, are based solely on whether the candidate adheres to their Viennese musical traditions, and not because they are a Born again Christian or related to the concert master! So if you don’t play in these traditions, yes, there is no sense to apply for an audition there. But concerning Cleveland what’s your claim? If you are not Born Again or related to the concert master, as you say, ” don’t waste your time and money auditioning there ” ?
Yes, and what if you’re a woman who strongly adheres to ‘The Vienna tradition’?
Yes, and what if you’re a woman who strongly adheres to ‘The Vienna tradition’?
As a kid I was transported by the magic of the Orchestra and hugeness of Mr. Szell…..I am totally appalled now at reading so many of these comments. Are the charges true? Has anybody in charge investigated. How about the boards of the two institutions? How about those charged in the local, state and federal offices charged for years to protect the vulnerable from harrassments outlined in the article? What seems clear here is that invective flies as retro attitudes about the very human tragedies outlined go uninvestigated by so many for so long, or not? This array of comments sounds like the bad old days in both civil rights and sexual harrassment days when there was no protection and the victims were morphed into the perpetrators. It would seem fairly easy under laws at all levels which do actually still cover those in Cleveland as well as the rest of the country, should be applied, the facts tested, and results fall as they must: Innocent or guilty, no matter the stations of those involved. Even President Nixon learned that nobody in the great country should or can be above the law. It is hard to believe that those who write about this or are quoted or are to frightened to be quoted are being treated in the ways being expressed here.
As a Clevelander and great admirer for years of the World Class Cleveland Orchestra this orchestra can survive the truth no matter where it may lay. Letting all this fester will, as so many have found out in many other circumstances over cause, just make the inevitable conclusions and consquences all the worse especially for the Orchestra and its aura, forever.
As a kid I was transported by the magic of the Orchestra and hugeness of Mr. Szell…..I am totally appalled now at reading so many of these comments. Are the charges true? Has anybody in charge investigated. How about the boards of the two institutions? How about those charged in the local, state and federal offices charged for years to protect the vulnerable from harrassments outlined in the article? What seems clear here is that invective flies as retro attitudes about the very human tragedies outlined go uninvestigated by so many for so long, or not? This array of comments sounds like the bad old days in both civil rights and sexual harrassment days when there was no protection and the victims were morphed into the perpetrators. It would seem fairly easy under laws at all levels which do actually still cover those in Cleveland as well as the rest of the country, should be applied, the facts tested, and results fall as they must: Innocent or guilty, no matter the stations of those involved. Even President Nixon learned that nobody in the great country should or can be above the law. It is hard to believe that those who write about this or are quoted or are to frightened to be quoted are being treated in the ways being expressed here.
As a Clevelander and great admirer for years of the World Class Cleveland Orchestra this orchestra can survive the truth no matter where it may lay. Letting all this fester will, as so many have found out in many other circumstances over cause, just make the inevitable conclusions and consquences all the worse especially for the Orchestra and its aura, forever.
It was reported to me last night that Bill had to sell his Strad for $600k to pay the settlement with the student mentioned. I’m sure this would have been mentioned if the writer had really dug deep.
On the other hand, unscreened auditions and some of the other inequities are through union contract agreement. Evidently not unpleasant enough for either side to want to rassle with. I’d guess that if Bill had harassed a Musical Arts Association employee, things would have been different. The facts are that it was a CIM student. Of course, the two institutions are joined at the wallet and the whole thing doesn’t pass the smell test.
MAA and its management rule from the top down. Lesser employees are assumed to be lesser humans. Upper ranks defend themselves regardless of legality or morality. Like a certain religious organization I could name. There is no quarter given, no thanks or apology.
Gary Hanson believes himself to be a genius, which must be true if he was given his exalted position. He was the less-than-successful marketing manager with a pleasant demeanor, but is certainly no businessman. He will never, ever return a disagreeable email or letter and will punish any underling who sends one. He pays an announcer in NY to do his radio commercials. The man’s manner is pompous, the voice of doom from the death star, telling how stuffy and unfriendly the orchestra experience is. Why would anybody want to respond to that challenge?
And after this affair with beloved Bill has been exposed, how many more listeners will be lost?
It was reported to me last night that Bill had to sell his Strad for $600k to pay the settlement with the student mentioned. I’m sure this would have been mentioned if the writer had really dug deep.
On the other hand, unscreened auditions and some of the other inequities are through union contract agreement. Evidently not unpleasant enough for either side to want to rassle with. I’d guess that if Bill had harassed a Musical Arts Association employee, things would have been different. The facts are that it was a CIM student. Of course, the two institutions are joined at the wallet and the whole thing doesn’t pass the smell test.
MAA and its management rule from the top down. Lesser employees are assumed to be lesser humans. Upper ranks defend themselves regardless of legality or morality. Like a certain religious organization I could name. There is no quarter given, no thanks or apology.
Gary Hanson believes himself to be a genius, which must be true if he was given his exalted position. He was the less-than-successful marketing manager with a pleasant demeanor, but is certainly no businessman. He will never, ever return a disagreeable email or letter and will punish any underling who sends one. He pays an announcer in NY to do his radio commercials. The man’s manner is pompous, the voice of doom from the death star, telling how stuffy and unfriendly the orchestra experience is. Why would anybody want to respond to that challenge?
And after this affair with beloved Bill has been exposed, how many more listeners will be lost?
TO HELEN I can’t believe that for a minute you can imagine that the Cleveland Orchestra has less of a sense of tradition than Vienna does. And do you really think that every member of the orchestra is Born Again or related to the Concertmaster? Must be a big family.
TO HELEN I can’t believe that for a minute you can imagine that the Cleveland Orchestra has less of a sense of tradition than Vienna does. And do you really think that every member of the orchestra is Born Again or related to the Concertmaster? Must be a big family.
I am a member of the Cleveland Orchestra, and I was there when Jeanne auditioned (yes, she did) and when Steve auditioned. Both went through far more rigorous auditons than most do precisely because we have no screen and precisely because they are related to BIll. But they won because they deserve to have won. Committees and the man in charge (in both cases it was Dohnanyi, actually)
NEED to be discrminating and are. What the article doesn’t state is that Bill’s daughter lost an audition for the orchestra (she subs occasionally now, and does NOT have a permanenet position) to someone who is not related to anyone. Or that Steve auditioned 3 or 4 separate times to win his position. Or that Polyakin couldn’t possibly quote Bill’s behavior on those auditions, because he was a candidate, and therefore not present. Should Bill be more careful with female students? Of course. Does this article actually state definitively anything that happened with that student? No. (And, wasn’t there a settlement? What does that mean?) Is the orchestra still a bastion a of culture, one of the few great ones in the world? Of course. Our “dark sides” (which this article points out without meaning to, for those who can read between the lines, also include bitterness and buck passin at not having one’s own way) have nothing to do with our creative output.
Also: we teach so that we can train students to do what we do, in any orchestra. It’s no wonder that we train people in our own style, and are attracted to that sort of playing in auditions. Screen or no screen, experience having freelanced in hack jobs, or not, we’d hear that.
I am a member of the Cleveland Orchestra, and I was there when Jeanne auditioned (yes, she did) and when Steve auditioned. Both went through far more rigorous auditons than most do precisely because we have no screen and precisely because they are related to BIll. But they won because they deserve to have won. Committees and the man in charge (in both cases it was Dohnanyi, actually)
NEED to be discrminating and are. What the article doesn’t state is that Bill’s daughter lost an audition for the orchestra (she subs occasionally now, and does NOT have a permanenet position) to someone who is not related to anyone. Or that Steve auditioned 3 or 4 separate times to win his position. Or that Polyakin couldn’t possibly quote Bill’s behavior on those auditions, because he was a candidate, and therefore not present. Should Bill be more careful with female students? Of course. Does this article actually state definitively anything that happened with that student? No. (And, wasn’t there a settlement? What does that mean?) Is the orchestra still a bastion a of culture, one of the few great ones in the world? Of course. Our “dark sides” (which this article points out without meaning to, for those who can read between the lines, also include bitterness and buck passin at not having one’s own way) have nothing to do with our creative output.
Also: we teach so that we can train students to do what we do, in any orchestra. It’s no wonder that we train people in our own style, and are attracted to that sort of playing in auditions. Screen or no screen, experience having freelanced in hack jobs, or not, we’d hear that.
Let us not forget that this is a tabloid. Open half the pages and find adult advertisements.
Let us not forget that this is a tabloid. Open half the pages and find adult advertisements.
I never said Cleveland did not have it’s own traditions, I said it had a different set of demands. Since the Cleveland Orchestra does not require that its players use instruments that are exclusively made in Cleveland or taught only in Cleveland, it makes it vastly different from the Vienna Philharmonic, which has a much smaller pool of players to choose from. Of course not everyone in the Cleveland Orchestra is a born again christian, and if they were they wouldn’t be related to Bill Preucil! The point being, these criterias are outside of the musical domain. Playing the Wiener horn is not. I do not believe you understood anything of my answer to Ivan. Maybe you haven’t been an orchestra musician for 30 years like I have, but I can assure you after sitting on many audition committees, there are always some players who try and use non-musical reasons for engaging their students and friends. A REAL MUSIC DIRECTOR doesn’t let it happen, and that is the problem in Cleveland.
I never said Cleveland did not have it’s own traditions, I said it had a different set of demands. Since the Cleveland Orchestra does not require that its players use instruments that are exclusively made in Cleveland or taught only in Cleveland, it makes it vastly different from the Vienna Philharmonic, which has a much smaller pool of players to choose from. Of course not everyone in the Cleveland Orchestra is a born again christian, and if they were they wouldn’t be related to Bill Preucil! The point being, these criterias are outside of the musical domain. Playing the Wiener horn is not. I do not believe you understood anything of my answer to Ivan. Maybe you haven’t been an orchestra musician for 30 years like I have, but I can assure you after sitting on many audition committees, there are always some players who try and use non-musical reasons for engaging their students and friends. A REAL MUSIC DIRECTOR doesn’t let it happen, and that is the problem in Cleveland.
Thank you to the CO musician for clarifying several points. We are professional musicians from another major ensemble who have enormous respect for your orchestra. However, your organization does have a bad rep for hiring from a select group of musicians. It would be much “cleaner” for everyone involved if the CO instigated a screen during the preliminary round of auditions. Those who are committed to griping and complaining will have less ammunition, and those talented musicians who happen to be related to orchestra members who come from behind the screen will be partially freed from the issue of nepotism. In addition, if the orchestra is looking for a certain type of sound, or style of playing, that would be evident without actually seeing the candidate, and would be judged solely on what was heard. There are a number of major orchestras that are guilty of holding “national” auditions, the CO is included in this group, and after not having found anyone “qualified”, extend an invitation to other principal players to “audition” with the group, and then offer the job to the person that they had in mind from the beginning. This type of farcical procedure only damages the reputation of these institutions as prospective candidates become less inclined to spend the money, hard work and time preparing for an audition. This type of word travels very quickly in the music world, and one can only guess as to how many talented and extremely qualified musicians have decided not to bother auditioning for the CO and other major orchestras.
You are correct in saying that orchestral musicians teach students to do what we do. Let’s be very careful about what we are teaching them…some lessons are included that have nothing to do with the music.
Thank you to the CO musician for clarifying several points. We are professional musicians from another major ensemble who have enormous respect for your orchestra. However, your organization does have a bad rep for hiring from a select group of musicians. It would be much “cleaner” for everyone involved if the CO instigated a screen during the preliminary round of auditions. Those who are committed to griping and complaining will have less ammunition, and those talented musicians who happen to be related to orchestra members who come from behind the screen will be partially freed from the issue of nepotism. In addition, if the orchestra is looking for a certain type of sound, or style of playing, that would be evident without actually seeing the candidate, and would be judged solely on what was heard. There are a number of major orchestras that are guilty of holding “national” auditions, the CO is included in this group, and after not having found anyone “qualified”, extend an invitation to other principal players to “audition” with the group, and then offer the job to the person that they had in mind from the beginning. This type of farcical procedure only damages the reputation of these institutions as prospective candidates become less inclined to spend the money, hard work and time preparing for an audition. This type of word travels very quickly in the music world, and one can only guess as to how many talented and extremely qualified musicians have decided not to bother auditioning for the CO and other major orchestras.
You are correct in saying that orchestral musicians teach students to do what we do. Let’s be very careful about what we are teaching them…some lessons are included that have nothing to do with the music.
Dear Guests from another major ensemble,
Thank you for raising the discussion to another level. I agree with you absolutely. I personally won’t deny that I have hopes at heart for any student of mine who auditions for the ensemble I’m apart of, but I simply recuse myself for all the obvious reasons, including protecting my student. No offence to the CO member, but all this tarnishing of Mr. Preucil’s daughter and relatives could have been avoided if he’d simply recused himself at their auditions. As we all know there are certain musicians in every ensemble who have more pull than others with the music director. And we all know and suffer from the fact that most of these conductors exhibit no hands-on leadership. Most of them are tourists at auditions, and in some major orchestras they don’t even attend. All the more reason to screen.
Dear Guests from another major ensemble,
Thank you for raising the discussion to another level. I agree with you absolutely. I personally won’t deny that I have hopes at heart for any student of mine who auditions for the ensemble I’m apart of, but I simply recuse myself for all the obvious reasons, including protecting my student. No offence to the CO member, but all this tarnishing of Mr. Preucil’s daughter and relatives could have been avoided if he’d simply recused himself at their auditions. As we all know there are certain musicians in every ensemble who have more pull than others with the music director. And we all know and suffer from the fact that most of these conductors exhibit no hands-on leadership. Most of them are tourists at auditions, and in some major orchestras they don’t even attend. All the more reason to screen.
I write in defense of the entire Preucil family – a family highly regarded in the music world. And especially I think this article is very unfair as it relates to Bill’s sister and brother-in-law, Jeanne and Steve Rose. When I brought them, as members of the Everest Quartet, to be my concertmaster and principal 2nd violin of the Midland-Odessa Symphony in Texas, Atlanta Symphony Conductor Robert Shaw wrote to me, and I quote: “It would be the Music Director coup of the decade to get these two fine young musicians. They were my principals for my Choral Institute in France and I’ve never had better leadership, or two finer people”. The Cleveland Orchestra should consider itself blessed to have all three members of this distinguished family among its ranks. – Don Th. Jaeger
I write in defense of the entire Preucil family – a family highly regarded in the music world. And especially I think this article is very unfair as it relates to Bill’s sister and brother-in-law, Jeanne and Steve Rose. When I brought them, as members of the Everest Quartet, to be my concertmaster and principal 2nd violin of the Midland-Odessa Symphony in Texas, Atlanta Symphony Conductor Robert Shaw wrote to me, and I quote: “It would be the Music Director coup of the decade to get these two fine young musicians. They were my principals for my Choral Institute in France and I’ve never had better leadership, or two finer people”. The Cleveland Orchestra should consider itself blessed to have all three members of this distinguished family among its ranks. – Don Th. Jaeger
The sense of entitlement and arrogance of cleveland musicians is even apparent in this so-called “discussion”…how sad.
The sense of entitlement and arrogance of cleveland musicians is even apparent in this so-called “discussion”…how sad.
Re: the exchange about Vienna and so on:
Like all orchestras, even American orchestras , certain instruments and/or styles are favored for unanimity of sound, which is often the deciding factor when the finals reap more than one outstanding player. Eg, the type of horn one American orchestra uses varies amongst orchestras (Conn 8-Ds in Cleveland vs. Chicago’s) or the German vs. French grip with string bass. This is normal, but more importantly, not the issue under discussion. Every American orchestra has a tradition too—Chicago’s vigorous energy, Cleveland’s refinement, Philly’s lushness. Let’s not beat around the bush, the subject is blatant nepotism, sexual abuse and mental abuse of those who inconveniently stand in the way of the spoiled-rotten concertmaster’s agenda.
It’s an old story, but just because others get away with some of this stuff, doesn’t mean this one should. And the degree of all his abuses singles him out as an extreme case.
Moreover, the article barely touches on what the music world knows to be a much broader problem. Kudos to the writer and the paper for blowing this open but sad that it takes a free weekly to publish such an article. However, only an investigative rag like this, and a gutsy writer like Meisner are politically independent enough to do so.
___________
Re: the exchange about Vienna and so on:
Like all orchestras, even American orchestras , certain instruments and/or styles are favored for unanimity of sound, which is often the deciding factor when the finals reap more than one outstanding player. Eg, the type of horn one American orchestra uses varies amongst orchestras (Conn 8-Ds in Cleveland vs. Chicago’s) or the German vs. French grip with string bass. This is normal, but more importantly, not the issue under discussion. Every American orchestra has a tradition too—Chicago’s vigorous energy, Cleveland’s refinement, Philly’s lushness. Let’s not beat around the bush, the subject is blatant nepotism, sexual abuse and mental abuse of those who inconveniently stand in the way of the spoiled-rotten concertmaster’s agenda.
It’s an old story, but just because others get away with some of this stuff, doesn’t mean this one should. And the degree of all his abuses singles him out as an extreme case.
Moreover, the article barely touches on what the music world knows to be a much broader problem. Kudos to the writer and the paper for blowing this open but sad that it takes a free weekly to publish such an article. However, only an investigative rag like this, and a gutsy writer like Meisner are politically independent enough to do so.
___________
To those who claim jealousy is fueling this debate, why isn’t there this degree of talk about the concertmasters in any other orchestras such as Boston, Philly, NY, Chicago and all the other arguably equally fine ones in SF, Pittsburgh and so on?
Where there’s THIS much smoke (re: the sexual harassment) , there are many fires, and the article only touches on one fire that was put out a couple of years ago. Others have been smoldering and are breaking out as we write.
To those who claim jealousy is fueling this debate, why isn’t there this degree of talk about the concertmasters in any other orchestras such as Boston, Philly, NY, Chicago and all the other arguably equally fine ones in SF, Pittsburgh and so on?
Where there’s THIS much smoke (re: the sexual harassment) , there are many fires, and the article only touches on one fire that was put out a couple of years ago. Others have been smoldering and are breaking out as we write.
Helen, I get your point. But I ask, how do you know for a fact that we don’t recuse ourselves when we are involved in an audition in which our students take part? (I do. Bill has. Vernon has.)
How does anyone know that you do, just because you say you do?
Helen, I get your point. But I ask, how do you know for a fact that we don’t recuse ourselves when we are involved in an audition in which our students take part? (I do. Bill has. Vernon has.)
How does anyone know that you do, just because you say you do?
And why does everyone keep referring to the glory days of Szell? Do you really think he wasn’t a tyrant? This is like referring to the glory days of politics where everyone was well-behaved…oh wait, maybe we just had to wait until JFK died to hear the reality. The good old days were only good because we’ve either forgotten or the truth was more of a secret.
And why does everyone keep referring to the glory days of Szell? Do you really think he wasn’t a tyrant? This is like referring to the glory days of politics where everyone was well-behaved…oh wait, maybe we just had to wait until JFK died to hear the reality. The good old days were only good because we’ve either forgotten or the truth was more of a secret.
I am thrilled you published this.
AS point taken, we are in CLEVELAND and not VIENNA, but the arrogance and money that is being paid to these musicians, is a sin.
CIM is not going away.
BILL PREUCIL is already gone according to these notes here.
PS
I hope he gets suspended without pay for a year or two.
lol
HEY Rebecca
The notes here are from very uppity anal retentive musicians mostly.
The legal facts remain the same.
As female myself, in the REAL world if a superior behaved like this …
and they do–he would be fired or lose his job at McDonalds as mgr.
I am thrilled you published this.
AS point taken, we are in CLEVELAND and not VIENNA, but the arrogance and money that is being paid to these musicians, is a sin.
CIM is not going away.
BILL PREUCIL is already gone according to these notes here.
PS
I hope he gets suspended without pay for a year or two.
lol
HEY Rebecca
The notes here are from very uppity anal retentive musicians mostly.
The legal facts remain the same.
As female myself, in the REAL world if a superior behaved like this …
and they do–he would be fired or lose his job at McDonalds as mgr.
Whaaaz up with Mrs. Preucil?
MY SOURCE she just likes the PRESTIGE of being married to a “”concertmaster”
Why on earth would a woman stand by a man like this? She could and should take him for every single penny…I would.
Whaaaz up with Mrs. Preucil?
MY SOURCE she just likes the PRESTIGE of being married to a “”concertmaster”
Why on earth would a woman stand by a man like this? She could and should take him for every single penny…I would.
Call it Yellow Journalism if you like, but the sad truth is, this story is Grade A FACT.
Anyone who has gone to CIM has known of these tristes of Pruecill’s for YEARS.
Fact is, this poor victim, and all of the people in the prchestra and at CIM are, and should be, concerned with whether they will have a job tomorrow, and this freak, pathological psycho has increasing power to affect that.
This isnt only about Pruecill, it is about the influence he wields. And the fear that kept that poor girl from coming forward is the SAME fear that has kept anyone else from coming forward: that her career would potentially be ruined.
This music world doesnt operate like the rest, it is tiny and self-insulating. Wrong someone today, interview or audition for their brother tomorrow. I think you non-musicians dont (and seated CO musicians didnt) really recognize the impact this could have. Your precious orchestra has been permanently, irrevocably damaged by your own silence.
Call it Yellow Journalism if you like, but the sad truth is, this story is Grade A FACT.
Anyone who has gone to CIM has known of these tristes of Pruecill’s for YEARS.
Fact is, this poor victim, and all of the people in the prchestra and at CIM are, and should be, concerned with whether they will have a job tomorrow, and this freak, pathological psycho has increasing power to affect that.
This isnt only about Pruecill, it is about the influence he wields. And the fear that kept that poor girl from coming forward is the SAME fear that has kept anyone else from coming forward: that her career would potentially be ruined.
This music world doesnt operate like the rest, it is tiny and self-insulating. Wrong someone today, interview or audition for their brother tomorrow. I think you non-musicians dont (and seated CO musicians didnt) really recognize the impact this could have. Your precious orchestra has been permanently, irrevocably damaged by your own silence.
Funny how this story is such a mirror for today’s political situation.
Bill Pruecill is the Classical music world’s George Bush.
Funny how this story is such a mirror for today’s political situation.
Bill Pruecill is the Classical music world’s George Bush.
Dear Funny,
You could start by spelling his name right, unless you are the George Bush in this situation…
Sincerely,
Anon
Dear Funny,
You could start by spelling his name right, unless you are the George Bush in this situation…
Sincerely,
Anon
For those question Steve Rose’s qualification. I believe he was offered the Concertmaster position of the Houston Symphony last year but turned it down. He is a fantastic player and leader of the section. It’s unfortunate that his wife and Lexi has to be trashed in the article and by others on this Blog. The Music Director makes the final decision who gets the job, not the concermaster..
For those question Steve Rose’s qualification. I believe he was offered the Concertmaster position of the Houston Symphony last year but turned it down. He is a fantastic player and leader of the section. It’s unfortunate that his wife and Lexi has to be trashed in the article and by others on this Blog. The Music Director makes the final decision who gets the job, not the concermaster..
For all of you that seem to think the Music Director has final say, think again. It really comes down to the Board. The Board (and to some degree the Ex. Man.) have the say over who gets to lead the CO. So, if there is complaining to do, send all you hate mail directly to the President of the Board. Maybe they will be educated enough next time the Maestro’s contract is up. Sure the Music Director gets to throw his weight around, but when it comes down to it, the power lies in the Board.
For all of you that seem to think the Music Director has final say, think again. It really comes down to the Board. The Board (and to some degree the Ex. Man.) have the say over who gets to lead the CO. So, if there is complaining to do, send all you hate mail directly to the President of the Board. Maybe they will be educated enough next time the Maestro’s contract is up. Sure the Music Director gets to throw his weight around, but when it comes down to it, the power lies in the Board.
Hi CO musician!
As far as wondering whether I have really recused myself, you’re just going to have to take my word for it…and no one has ever accused me of nepotism in my orchestra. I have no reason not to believe you, when you say you have recused yourself, and if you say Mr. Vernon has, but…. obviously in these touchy cases, Mr. Preucil did not……. oops. Also, all of us who teach young students of the opposite sex have, I guess, the opportunity to abuse that trust. It’s not a question of Mr. Preucil being” more careful with his female students”, it is a question of his character. His actions have dragged your orchestra into a poor white trash scenario and tarnished the reputation of the Cleveland Orchestra. However you want to twist this around, you can try, but his actions are really not defendable. Do you really think the management of both CIM and the orchestra can now afford to ignore this mess? And as a member of this orchestra, do you condone nothing being done? Maybe for the people who’ve known all along, it doesn’t seem so bad, but aren’t you a little bit angry at your concertmaster?
Hi CO musician!
As far as wondering whether I have really recused myself, you’re just going to have to take my word for it…and no one has ever accused me of nepotism in my orchestra. I have no reason not to believe you, when you say you have recused yourself, and if you say Mr. Vernon has, but…. obviously in these touchy cases, Mr. Preucil did not……. oops. Also, all of us who teach young students of the opposite sex have, I guess, the opportunity to abuse that trust. It’s not a question of Mr. Preucil being” more careful with his female students”, it is a question of his character. His actions have dragged your orchestra into a poor white trash scenario and tarnished the reputation of the Cleveland Orchestra. However you want to twist this around, you can try, but his actions are really not defendable. Do you really think the management of both CIM and the orchestra can now afford to ignore this mess? And as a member of this orchestra, do you condone nothing being done? Maybe for the people who’ve known all along, it doesn’t seem so bad, but aren’t you a little bit angry at your concertmaster?
As soon as management of both CIM and the Cleveland Orchestra were made aware of Mr. Preucil’s behaviour – as it seems his outrageous conduct is not recent – Mr.Preucil should have been confronted, asked to step down and to take his business elsewhere or else. It is done everyday . It would have protected students and his collegues from this scandal. If this was about my kid…..
As soon as management of both CIM and the Cleveland Orchestra were made aware of Mr. Preucil’s behaviour – as it seems his outrageous conduct is not recent – Mr.Preucil should have been confronted, asked to step down and to take his business elsewhere or else. It is done everyday . It would have protected students and his collegues from this scandal. If this was about my kid…..
Being a long time subsciber to the Cleveland Orchestra, I noticed something during Mr. Preucil’s tenure as concertmaster. Except for a few, why are all new violinists in the orchestra given choice 1st violin seats (including Miss Preucil who is filling in the section)?
Being a long time subsciber to the Cleveland Orchestra, I noticed something during Mr. Preucil’s tenure as concertmaster. Except for a few, why are all new violinists in the orchestra given choice 1st violin seats (including Miss Preucil who is filling in the section)?
knowledgable individual: enlighten me, if you will, about why anyone at the orchestra or CIM should be concerned about losing his job tomorrow.
Helen: Yes, I am angry at my concertmaster, and I don’t believe I said anything in his defense. I just don’t think it’s ALL bad here, or that, when it comes to music-making (which is what we do onstage, after all) he has anything to worry about. I can only worry about what my students learn from all this, and do something about that.
longtime subscriber: that’s easy. Positions are filled as they are vacated. Second violinists have the chance to audition to move if they want to.
knowledgable individual: enlighten me, if you will, about why anyone at the orchestra or CIM should be concerned about losing his job tomorrow.
Helen: Yes, I am angry at my concertmaster, and I don’t believe I said anything in his defense. I just don’t think it’s ALL bad here, or that, when it comes to music-making (which is what we do onstage, after all) he has anything to worry about. I can only worry about what my students learn from all this, and do something about that.
longtime subscriber: that’s easy. Positions are filled as they are vacated. Second violinists have the chance to audition to move if they want to.
…as long as they are cute girls or politically connected
…as long as they are cute girls or politically connected
OK CO musician I’ve read just about enough from you. You really seem to know an awful lot about an awful lot. When I walk into the locker room I can actually point you people out. So, when was the last time you heard of any CO principal recusing themselves from auditions for any reason?
OK CO musician I’ve read just about enough from you. You really seem to know an awful lot about an awful lot. When I walk into the locker room I can actually point you people out. So, when was the last time you heard of any CO principal recusing themselves from auditions for any reason?
“Underneath its glossy exterior, the Cleveland Orchestra has a dark side. His name is William Preucil.”
This article doesn’t cover the half of it! A friend once told me she saw him eating a puppy with chopsticks before a concert. He also sacrifices virgins before each rehearsal.
The article goes on to say his gaze lingers too long on a woman’s chest. No kidding! This other friend of mine saw William staring at a woman’s chest for 6 hours while repeatedly punching a nun in the face and urinating on an infant.
He is truly a tyrant! He makes Stalin and Hitler look like amateurs!
“Underneath its glossy exterior, the Cleveland Orchestra has a dark side. His name is William Preucil.”
This article doesn’t cover the half of it! A friend once told me she saw him eating a puppy with chopsticks before a concert. He also sacrifices virgins before each rehearsal.
The article goes on to say his gaze lingers too long on a woman’s chest. No kidding! This other friend of mine saw William staring at a woman’s chest for 6 hours while repeatedly punching a nun in the face and urinating on an infant.
He is truly a tyrant! He makes Stalin and Hitler look like amateurs!
“Another Professional Musician” and few others have defended the qualifications of Mr. Rose. I don’t recall anyone having questioned his qualifications (and I’d never heard of him before this article, so have no idea myself). But just because he may be a great player doesn’t mean Mr. Preucil might not have inappropriately influenced his initial audition win or his eventual promotion. You can’t defend/excuse nepotism by saying someone’s highly qualified; so, no doubt, was the person who he beat out for the job (auditions at this level are not really a case of choosing between supremacy and incompetence) but who might not have been so fortunately connected.
“Another Professional Musician” and few others have defended the qualifications of Mr. Rose. I don’t recall anyone having questioned his qualifications (and I’d never heard of him before this article, so have no idea myself). But just because he may be a great player doesn’t mean Mr. Preucil might not have inappropriately influenced his initial audition win or his eventual promotion. You can’t defend/excuse nepotism by saying someone’s highly qualified; so, no doubt, was the person who he beat out for the job (auditions at this level are not really a case of choosing between supremacy and incompetence) but who might not have been so fortunately connected.
Hello again CO musician!
I agree with you the musical product of the Cleveland Orchestra is far from being ALL bad, it’s one of the best orchestras in America, which is all the more reason why this situation is so sad. You may respect with great reason Mr. Preucil’s musicianship, but doesn’t the position of concertmaster require more? He is the “leader” of your orchestra in all respects, and doesn’t that mean not just musical or techinal leadership, but leadership in all aspects of his comportment in order to be truly respected and be responsible to all of you, his colleagues in the orchestra. I believe in “live and let live” in ones private actions, but when someone in his position chooses to be so reckless for so long, he should be on his own and not be protected by the institution. There is too much at stake. Mr. Preucil has let The Cleveland Orchestra down, and any decisions he will make after this will lack credibility, which will put in question his musical authoriy. A solo career seems appropriate for Mr. Preucil. I sincerely believe your management and CIM have to do something, it sets a precedent for all symphony orchestras and music conservatories.
Hello again CO musician!
I agree with you the musical product of the Cleveland Orchestra is far from being ALL bad, it’s one of the best orchestras in America, which is all the more reason why this situation is so sad. You may respect with great reason Mr. Preucil’s musicianship, but doesn’t the position of concertmaster require more? He is the “leader” of your orchestra in all respects, and doesn’t that mean not just musical or techinal leadership, but leadership in all aspects of his comportment in order to be truly respected and be responsible to all of you, his colleagues in the orchestra. I believe in “live and let live” in ones private actions, but when someone in his position chooses to be so reckless for so long, he should be on his own and not be protected by the institution. There is too much at stake. Mr. Preucil has let The Cleveland Orchestra down, and any decisions he will make after this will lack credibility, which will put in question his musical authoriy. A solo career seems appropriate for Mr. Preucil. I sincerely believe your management and CIM have to do something, it sets a precedent for all symphony orchestras and music conservatories.
Wait so the charges leveled against Preucil are:
1. He likes the company of women.
2. He brushed up against some young woman; she said no thanks; they settled out of court.
3. He tries to help his family/students find employment.
Wow. Truly a DARK human being.
Wait so the charges leveled against Preucil are:
1. He likes the company of women.
2. He brushed up against some young woman; she said no thanks; they settled out of court.
3. He tries to help his family/students find employment.
Wow. Truly a DARK human being.
Wait so the charges leveled against Preucil are:
1. He likes the company of women.
2. He brushed up against some young woman; she said no thanks; they settled out of court.
3. He tries to help his family/students find employment.
Wow. Truly a DARK human being.
Wait so the charges leveled against Preucil are:
1. He likes the company of women.
2. He brushed up against some young woman; she said no thanks; they settled out of court.
3. He tries to help his family/students find employment.
Wow. Truly a DARK human being.
For those of us who are professional musicians, this article illustrates a known reality of the orchestral and conservatory world: men in positions of power manipulate others for their own benefit. Unfortunately, the audition process is flawed, that’s an entire book yet to be written. There are many cases of auditions being skewed to favor an insider – whether a student, friend or relative. In some cases, jobs are being given with no audition, or as one commenter pointed out, to favorites after a ‘sham’ national audition has been held. For Cleveland not to use a screen is akin to Vienna not admitting women (a policy that has changed of course.) It reflects an insular and out-of-date mindset.
However, the allegations of sexual misconduct are more serious. Therefore while the CO has much to answer for, the main burden is on CIM for potentially allowing a sexual predator to continue teaching. I found Cerone’s comments inadequate. As someone who teaches and is also a parent, I would find it difficult to recommend the school to students, especially female violinists.
For those of us who are professional musicians, this article illustrates a known reality of the orchestral and conservatory world: men in positions of power manipulate others for their own benefit. Unfortunately, the audition process is flawed, that’s an entire book yet to be written. There are many cases of auditions being skewed to favor an insider – whether a student, friend or relative. In some cases, jobs are being given with no audition, or as one commenter pointed out, to favorites after a ‘sham’ national audition has been held. For Cleveland not to use a screen is akin to Vienna not admitting women (a policy that has changed of course.) It reflects an insular and out-of-date mindset.
However, the allegations of sexual misconduct are more serious. Therefore while the CO has much to answer for, the main burden is on CIM for potentially allowing a sexual predator to continue teaching. I found Cerone’s comments inadequate. As someone who teaches and is also a parent, I would find it difficult to recommend the school to students, especially female violinists.
This needs to stop! The Cleveland Orchestra has always been and will always be one of the top orchestras in the world. For those of you who are bitter, get help. As for the rest of you, get a new hobby. Let the orchestra play great music. That’s what they are there to do. Enough of this nonsense already!
This needs to stop! The Cleveland Orchestra has always been and will always be one of the top orchestras in the world. For those of you who are bitter, get help. As for the rest of you, get a new hobby. Let the orchestra play great music. That’s what they are there to do. Enough of this nonsense already!
PREUCIL- DESTROYER OF WORLDS!!!!
THE GREATEST TYRANT THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN!!!!!
PILLAGER OF COUNTRIES!!!!
SEND IN THE MARINES!!!
SAVE DARFUR
SAVE CLEVELAND!!!!
PREUCIL- DESTROYER OF WORLDS!!!!
THE GREATEST TYRANT THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN!!!!!
PILLAGER OF COUNTRIES!!!!
SEND IN THE MARINES!!!
SAVE DARFUR
SAVE CLEVELAND!!!!
Charges,
Let me help you rephrase these “charges” so they are more accurate:
1. He physically and verbally abuses women in his company
2. He brushed up against more than one young woman. In the case of the girl from CIM, they settled out of court, and he should have other lawsuits to settle out of court
3. He uses his power and influence to help his family/students find emplyment at the expense of other, possibly more qualified candidates.
Yes, my friend, he truly is a dark human being.
Charges,
Let me help you rephrase these “charges” so they are more accurate:
1. He physically and verbally abuses women in his company
2. He brushed up against more than one young woman. In the case of the girl from CIM, they settled out of court, and he should have other lawsuits to settle out of court
3. He uses his power and influence to help his family/students find emplyment at the expense of other, possibly more qualified candidates.
Yes, my friend, he truly is a dark human being.
“You can’t defend/excuse nepotism by saying someone’s highly qualified; so, no doubt, was the person who he beat out for the job (auditions at this level are not really a case of choosing between supremacy and incompetence) but who might not have been so fortunately connected.”
Not that nepotism is non-existant, but by this logic it would appear that no matter how gifted and well suited to the position one might be, if one is related to or a student of someone in the orchestra, that person under no circumstances deserves the job–even if they fairly win the audition. That is a good bit of bias on your part too–no?
“You can’t defend/excuse nepotism by saying someone’s highly qualified; so, no doubt, was the person who he beat out for the job (auditions at this level are not really a case of choosing between supremacy and incompetence) but who might not have been so fortunately connected.”
Not that nepotism is non-existant, but by this logic it would appear that no matter how gifted and well suited to the position one might be, if one is related to or a student of someone in the orchestra, that person under no circumstances deserves the job–even if they fairly win the audition. That is a good bit of bias on your part too–no?
To the poster who equated Mr. Preucil to the current President Bush. You’ve got the wrong president. Super talented and charismatic, but reportedly lacking in character and lustful for young women under his tutelage? That’s Bill Clinton, all the way.
As for The Cleveland Orchestra, it doesn’t seem to have done anything wrong at all in this matter. Its audition practices are its own business. If you are a musician who doesn’t like these practices, don’t come and audition. (For the record, plenty of musicians, even violinists, have joined The Cleveland Orchestra over the past 12 years without having any relationship at all to Mr. Preucil.) It seems to me that limiting its auditions to 20 or so folks is more humane than the 200-plus-player cattle calls I’ve heard about at other orchestras. What do some of you think, that The Cleveland Orchestra owes you a chance at a great living? It doesn’t owe you anything.
As for CIM, well, it could be in some distress from this piece. I hope it has not continued to employ a serial sexual harrasser as its top draw for aspiring orchestral musicians.
To the poster who equated Mr. Preucil to the current President Bush. You’ve got the wrong president. Super talented and charismatic, but reportedly lacking in character and lustful for young women under his tutelage? That’s Bill Clinton, all the way.
As for The Cleveland Orchestra, it doesn’t seem to have done anything wrong at all in this matter. Its audition practices are its own business. If you are a musician who doesn’t like these practices, don’t come and audition. (For the record, plenty of musicians, even violinists, have joined The Cleveland Orchestra over the past 12 years without having any relationship at all to Mr. Preucil.) It seems to me that limiting its auditions to 20 or so folks is more humane than the 200-plus-player cattle calls I’ve heard about at other orchestras. What do some of you think, that The Cleveland Orchestra owes you a chance at a great living? It doesn’t owe you anything.
As for CIM, well, it could be in some distress from this piece. I hope it has not continued to employ a serial sexual harrasser as its top draw for aspiring orchestral musicians.
To anon who thinks the comments are out of envy or lack of a hobby: The very fact that this is one of the greatest orchestras in the world is why this must be taken seriously. In fact, those of us associated with orchestras with international reputations are quite curious as to how the Cleveland Orchestra community will react to this crisis. This forum of course is not conducive to measured response or deeper thinking on the issue. However, do not dismiss the serious nature of these reports. I would ask everyone reading this series to consider the fact that power and money can have a corrosive effect upon an orchestra. Eventually the legacy and reputation must become subject to reality and not merely the myth of the past or the machinations of the marketing department.
To anon who thinks the comments are out of envy or lack of a hobby: The very fact that this is one of the greatest orchestras in the world is why this must be taken seriously. In fact, those of us associated with orchestras with international reputations are quite curious as to how the Cleveland Orchestra community will react to this crisis. This forum of course is not conducive to measured response or deeper thinking on the issue. However, do not dismiss the serious nature of these reports. I would ask everyone reading this series to consider the fact that power and money can have a corrosive effect upon an orchestra. Eventually the legacy and reputation must become subject to reality and not merely the myth of the past or the machinations of the marketing department.
Any musician who reads this article should see that she clearly knows little or nothing about music….not to mention EVERY concertmaster shakes the conductors hand after the concert..
To those commenting on unfair audition trials, could it perhaps be that the members of the Cleveland Orchestra know exactly WHAT to focus on with their students should they wish to get a job in the Cleveland Orchestra? Regarding recent graduates getting in, Lynn Harrell got into Cleveland Orchestra at the AGE OF 18 (his family was DEAD when he auditioned, btw)…so what if the recent graduates of CIM got into an orchestra immediately? Good for them, you could say that THEY had a leg up into the audition process since they worked with members of the Cleveland Orchestra and KNEW what people would be looking for in the auditions. That would be because they were talented enough to get into CIM and if so they deserve to get as much as they can from their institution, including a little foresight into the audition process, if members of the orchestra are part of the faculty or if they made the initiative to find out. Instead of going online and complaining about how auditions are rigged and how you can’t get into any, shouldn’t you be practicing? (I should too…)
Any musician who reads this article should see that she clearly knows little or nothing about music….not to mention EVERY concertmaster shakes the conductors hand after the concert..
To those commenting on unfair audition trials, could it perhaps be that the members of the Cleveland Orchestra know exactly WHAT to focus on with their students should they wish to get a job in the Cleveland Orchestra? Regarding recent graduates getting in, Lynn Harrell got into Cleveland Orchestra at the AGE OF 18 (his family was DEAD when he auditioned, btw)…so what if the recent graduates of CIM got into an orchestra immediately? Good for them, you could say that THEY had a leg up into the audition process since they worked with members of the Cleveland Orchestra and KNEW what people would be looking for in the auditions. That would be because they were talented enough to get into CIM and if so they deserve to get as much as they can from their institution, including a little foresight into the audition process, if members of the orchestra are part of the faculty or if they made the initiative to find out. Instead of going online and complaining about how auditions are rigged and how you can’t get into any, shouldn’t you be practicing? (I should too…)
Any musician who reads this article should see that she clearly knows little or nothing about music….not to mention EVERY concertmaster shakes the conductors hand after the concert..
To those commenting on unfair audition trials, could it perhaps be that the members of the Cleveland Orchestra know exactly WHAT to focus on with their students should they wish to get a job in the Cleveland Orchestra? Regarding recent graduates getting in, Lynn Harrell got into Cleveland Orchestra at the AGE OF 18 (his family was DEAD when he auditioned, btw)…so what if the recent graduates of CIM got into an orchestra immediately? Good for them, you could say that THEY had a leg up into the audition process since they worked with members of the Cleveland Orchestra and KNEW what people would be looking for in the auditions. That would be because they were talented enough to get into CIM and if so they deserve to get as much as they can from their institution, including a little foresight into the audition process, if members of the orchestra are part of the faculty or if they made the initiative to find out. Instead of going online and complaining about how auditions are rigged and how you can’t get into any, shouldn’t you be practicing? (I should too…)
Any musician who reads this article should see that she clearly knows little or nothing about music….not to mention EVERY concertmaster shakes the conductors hand after the concert..
To those commenting on unfair audition trials, could it perhaps be that the members of the Cleveland Orchestra know exactly WHAT to focus on with their students should they wish to get a job in the Cleveland Orchestra? Regarding recent graduates getting in, Lynn Harrell got into Cleveland Orchestra at the AGE OF 18 (his family was DEAD when he auditioned, btw)…so what if the recent graduates of CIM got into an orchestra immediately? Good for them, you could say that THEY had a leg up into the audition process since they worked with members of the Cleveland Orchestra and KNEW what people would be looking for in the auditions. That would be because they were talented enough to get into CIM and if so they deserve to get as much as they can from their institution, including a little foresight into the audition process, if members of the orchestra are part of the faculty or if they made the initiative to find out. Instead of going online and complaining about how auditions are rigged and how you can’t get into any, shouldn’t you be practicing? (I should too…)
Regarding the abundance of “talent” in the Preucil family (which is in question from a few accusations of slander, from “anonymous” posters)If you read the biographies of just about EVERY major soloist or even musicians in major orchestras in the world, 90% of them will say they came from a musical background, where either one or both of their parents were professional musicians. So instead of accusing them of nepotism and saying they lacked any real talent, couldn’t this just be a case of growing up in an ideal environment with their parents preparing them adequately? Instead of hiding behind those names, why not use your real ones? Afraid of lawsuits?
As for the sexual harassment issues…
This IS a prevalent issue in the musical world, and is also the case in the workplace with bosses sexually harassing their coworkers, priests molesting their altar boys, teachers having affairs with their students, kids to one another in schools, rappers with their “bitches” and “hos”…wait a minute, this sounds like this ISN’T a case exclusive to the musical world! It is rampant anywhere you go. I am not making an excuse or saying it’s ok, but just letting you know its EVERYWHERE YOU GO. Unless you lock your kids up in a basement…but I think that is looked down on too…
Just because you have lots of gigs doesn’t mean you have enough experience to qualify yourself as an orchestral musician…Playing Canon in D at 500 weddings doesn’t qualify you to join any top notch orchestra you think you deserve to get into because of all your “experience.” Prepare yourself for the auditions in every way possible, instead of thinking about every single way that the orchestra committee could be screwing you over.
Have a nice day!
Regarding the abundance of “talent” in the Preucil family (which is in question from a few accusations of slander, from “anonymous” posters)If you read the biographies of just about EVERY major soloist or even musicians in major orchestras in the world, 90% of them will say they came from a musical background, where either one or both of their parents were professional musicians. So instead of accusing them of nepotism and saying they lacked any real talent, couldn’t this just be a case of growing up in an ideal environment with their parents preparing them adequately? Instead of hiding behind those names, why not use your real ones? Afraid of lawsuits?
As for the sexual harassment issues…
This IS a prevalent issue in the musical world, and is also the case in the workplace with bosses sexually harassing their coworkers, priests molesting their altar boys, teachers having affairs with their students, kids to one another in schools, rappers with their “bitches” and “hos”…wait a minute, this sounds like this ISN’T a case exclusive to the musical world! It is rampant anywhere you go. I am not making an excuse or saying it’s ok, but just letting you know its EVERYWHERE YOU GO. Unless you lock your kids up in a basement…but I think that is looked down on too…
Just because you have lots of gigs doesn’t mean you have enough experience to qualify yourself as an orchestral musician…Playing Canon in D at 500 weddings doesn’t qualify you to join any top notch orchestra you think you deserve to get into because of all your “experience.” Prepare yourself for the auditions in every way possible, instead of thinking about every single way that the orchestra committee could be screwing you over.
Have a nice day!
Isn’t it disgusting that once you reach a position of prestige from hard work and perseverance people try to put you down to make themselves feel better; and besides, when I knew him,he was gay. Dave Arenz ASO
Isn’t it disgusting that once you reach a position of prestige from hard work and perseverance people try to put you down to make themselves feel better; and besides, when I knew him,he was gay. Dave Arenz ASO
The sensationalism of this article does a real disservice to the very valid concerns that it addresses. It is written in the style of a tabloid article, obviously to shock and upset people, and the small amount of information presented does nothing to show the bigger picture of the classical music world. I am not an orchestral musician, so I won’t speak to that side of the story, but during my time at CIM it was accepted that teachers harassed their students and got away with it with nothing more than a wink from the administration. That was not the only type of abuse of power, but I know first-hand of four other teachers – two of them department heads – who pressured their students sexually, and only one was asked to leave. Since CIM is not a traditional academic institution it seems that such matters are determined by politics rather than education and sound policies, and it reflects much about David Cerone, the school administration, and the culture of the institution that these matters are swept under the carpet. Yes, Bill Preucil may have a dark side, but a responsible journalist, instead of slandering his family, would have dug a little deeper and discovered that there are many others in his company.
a CIM grad – please do not print my name or email address
The sensationalism of this article does a real disservice to the very valid concerns that it addresses. It is written in the style of a tabloid article, obviously to shock and upset people, and the small amount of information presented does nothing to show the bigger picture of the classical music world. I am not an orchestral musician, so I won’t speak to that side of the story, but during my time at CIM it was accepted that teachers harassed their students and got away with it with nothing more than a wink from the administration. That was not the only type of abuse of power, but I know first-hand of four other teachers – two of them department heads – who pressured their students sexually, and only one was asked to leave. Since CIM is not a traditional academic institution it seems that such matters are determined by politics rather than education and sound policies, and it reflects much about David Cerone, the school administration, and the culture of the institution that these matters are swept under the carpet. Yes, Bill Preucil may have a dark side, but a responsible journalist, instead of slandering his family, would have dug a little deeper and discovered that there are many others in his company.
a CIM grad – please do not print my name or email address
As for the nepotism claim, can you blame Mr. Preucil for wanting to fill his section with allies, when he clearly has to deal with so many enemies? From what I hear, one of those enemies may be leaving soon.
And as for the sexual harassment claim, well, let’s just say that he’s not the first teacher to be involved with students. And if many of them are, frankly, eager participants, it’s understandable if he misjudged the receptivity of one. Perhaps his behavior was known, but allowed to go unchecked for too long. If he’s smart, he’ll be more careful next time.
As for the nepotism claim, can you blame Mr. Preucil for wanting to fill his section with allies, when he clearly has to deal with so many enemies? From what I hear, one of those enemies may be leaving soon.
And as for the sexual harassment claim, well, let’s just say that he’s not the first teacher to be involved with students. And if many of them are, frankly, eager participants, it’s understandable if he misjudged the receptivity of one. Perhaps his behavior was known, but allowed to go unchecked for too long. If he’s smart, he’ll be more careful next time.
“Cim grad” makes very good points. Although the issues addressed in the article are very important and give a heads-up to the complicated world of mentor-student relationships, the sensationalism of the article does nothing to help.
“Cim grad” makes very good points. Although the issues addressed in the article are very important and give a heads-up to the complicated world of mentor-student relationships, the sensationalism of the article does nothing to help.
I said: #
“You can’t defend/excuse nepotism by saying someone’s highly qualified; so, no doubt, was the person who he beat out for the job (auditions at this level are not really a case of choosing between supremacy and incompetence) but who might not have been so fortunately connected.”
Anonymous replied:
Not that nepotism is non-existant, but by this logic it would appear that no matter how gifted and well suited to the position one might be, if one is related to or a student of someone in the orchestra, that person under no circumstances deserves the job–even if they fairly win the audition. That is a good bit of bias on your part too–no?
Me again: No. It’s perfectly fine for relatives of current employees to try to join any organization – the key is transparency and objectivity in the selection process, both to give all applicants as level a “playing field” as possible, and to remove the appearance of favoritism as much as possible. IMHO, in any organization beyond a family business (and the Cleveland Orchestra, despite some outward appearances to the contrary, is not a family business) it is highly inappropriate for an employee to be involved in hiring decisions when a close relative is one of the candidates. It would be unthinkable where I work.
I said: #
“You can’t defend/excuse nepotism by saying someone’s highly qualified; so, no doubt, was the person who he beat out for the job (auditions at this level are not really a case of choosing between supremacy and incompetence) but who might not have been so fortunately connected.”
Anonymous replied:
Not that nepotism is non-existant, but by this logic it would appear that no matter how gifted and well suited to the position one might be, if one is related to or a student of someone in the orchestra, that person under no circumstances deserves the job–even if they fairly win the audition. That is a good bit of bias on your part too–no?
Me again: No. It’s perfectly fine for relatives of current employees to try to join any organization – the key is transparency and objectivity in the selection process, both to give all applicants as level a “playing field” as possible, and to remove the appearance of favoritism as much as possible. IMHO, in any organization beyond a family business (and the Cleveland Orchestra, despite some outward appearances to the contrary, is not a family business) it is highly inappropriate for an employee to be involved in hiring decisions when a close relative is one of the candidates. It would be unthinkable where I work.
Sam-
From your last few attempts all I can say is grow up and shut up!
Sam-
From your last few attempts all I can say is grow up and shut up!
Reading the posts on this article comes across more as bickering and fantasizing than intelligent debate. Look closely at the article and keep score if necessary; there is a fairly even balance of history, information and compliments, alongside of controversy, criticism and accusations. At the end of the article Meiser took a courageous stance and jeopardized her own thesis on Preucil’s dark side. Only a true journalist would build a case for a corrupt person, and in the last sentence hint at his greatness. I applaud the author for being an intelligent risk-taker.
Reading the posts on this article comes across more as bickering and fantasizing than intelligent debate. Look closely at the article and keep score if necessary; there is a fairly even balance of history, information and compliments, alongside of controversy, criticism and accusations. At the end of the article Meiser took a courageous stance and jeopardized her own thesis on Preucil’s dark side. Only a true journalist would build a case for a corrupt person, and in the last sentence hint at his greatness. I applaud the author for being an intelligent risk-taker.
You people need to realize that great artists such as those in the Cleveland Orchestra don’t need to adhere to your pitiful “morals.”
Some people are just better than everyone else, and should be allowed to do whatever they feel like. How can you expect people with such amazing, unbridled talent to be able to control themselves? I wish one would rub up against me.
You people need to realize that great artists such as those in the Cleveland Orchestra don’t need to adhere to your pitiful “morals.”
Some people are just better than everyone else, and should be allowed to do whatever they feel like. How can you expect people with such amazing, unbridled talent to be able to control themselves? I wish one would rub up against me.
_
Hey Another CO musician-
Why don’t YOU shut up and grow up.
I win.
_
_
Hey Another CO musician-
Why don’t YOU shut up and grow up.
I win.
_
Thankfully, it seems that only male musicians exhibit the kind of disturbing behavior written about in this article. I have never once heard of a salacious or inappropriate female musician, and certainly not in any of the major orchestras. They all seem to be paragons of virtue and decency. Why do men always have to introduce an elemant of sexual tension in every situation? Damn them.
Thankfully, it seems that only male musicians exhibit the kind of disturbing behavior written about in this article. I have never once heard of a salacious or inappropriate female musician, and certainly not in any of the major orchestras. They all seem to be paragons of virtue and decency. Why do men always have to introduce an elemant of sexual tension in every situation? Damn them.
Sam,
By your responses to this article it’s clear you condone all sexual harrassment and nepotism in the workplace under any circumstances. You can find excuses for anything and anybody. And the anger and resentment in your tone . . .
Have a real nice life.
Sam,
By your responses to this article it’s clear you condone all sexual harrassment and nepotism in the workplace under any circumstances. You can find excuses for anything and anybody. And the anger and resentment in your tone . . .
Have a real nice life.
People keep saying that only the Music Director has the authority to hire new musicians. Well then, judging by the results of most Cleveland Orchestra auditions, it would be a fair guess that the Music Director sleeps through the auditions and lets them be run him principal string players. Some very good players have gotten into the Cleveland Orchestra and some less-than-good ones have too.
There is NO Cleveland sound that a string player develops from studying with one of their principals. I guarantee you this. None of the people who got into the string sections over the last 15 years plays in a special style that only a CIM student is enlightened enough to master. As for knowing who will be a “good fit”, they don’t bother to give anyone from the outside a chance, they just take their good fits from CIM, down the street. My advice is just don’t audition there, they know who they want and it’s their own private club. If you really want to be part of them, you must play 100 times better than the CIM student, 10 times better won’t be good enough.
Everywhere he goes, many beautiful young ladies seek Preucil’s attention and throw themselves at him. They love him. I’ve heard many young ladies talk in graphic detail of how they would love to have relations with him. He’s NOT a monster or predator, he’s a kind-hearted man, equally helpful and friendly to male students and the less attractive females. Men who don’t have his charm and charisma shouldn’t use this opportunity to bash him, and women who don’t know him should understand that girls follow him around with their mouths open everywhere he goes. If slipping up is a crime, it’s a crime he will have to resist many thousand more times in his life than other men will. Which isn’t that easy all the time.
People keep saying that only the Music Director has the authority to hire new musicians. Well then, judging by the results of most Cleveland Orchestra auditions, it would be a fair guess that the Music Director sleeps through the auditions and lets them be run him principal string players. Some very good players have gotten into the Cleveland Orchestra and some less-than-good ones have too.
There is NO Cleveland sound that a string player develops from studying with one of their principals. I guarantee you this. None of the people who got into the string sections over the last 15 years plays in a special style that only a CIM student is enlightened enough to master. As for knowing who will be a “good fit”, they don’t bother to give anyone from the outside a chance, they just take their good fits from CIM, down the street. My advice is just don’t audition there, they know who they want and it’s their own private club. If you really want to be part of them, you must play 100 times better than the CIM student, 10 times better won’t be good enough.
Everywhere he goes, many beautiful young ladies seek Preucil’s attention and throw themselves at him. They love him. I’ve heard many young ladies talk in graphic detail of how they would love to have relations with him. He’s NOT a monster or predator, he’s a kind-hearted man, equally helpful and friendly to male students and the less attractive females. Men who don’t have his charm and charisma shouldn’t use this opportunity to bash him, and women who don’t know him should understand that girls follow him around with their mouths open everywhere he goes. If slipping up is a crime, it’s a crime he will have to resist many thousand more times in his life than other men will. Which isn’t that easy all the time.
To Poptart:
In the last fifteen years, many of the string players chosen by both Dohnanyi and Welser-Most have NOT come from CIM. Eli -Matthews, Ioana Missits, Yu Yuan, Charles Carleton, to name a few. As for Sae Shiragami and Isabel Trautwein, they may have gone to CIM, but they studied with Weilerstein, not Preucil. They also had postitions in Houston Symphony and St. Louis Symphony prior to their appointments in Cleveland. Just wanted to clear that up.
To Poptart:
In the last fifteen years, many of the string players chosen by both Dohnanyi and Welser-Most have NOT come from CIM. Eli -Matthews, Ioana Missits, Yu Yuan, Charles Carleton, to name a few. As for Sae Shiragami and Isabel Trautwein, they may have gone to CIM, but they studied with Weilerstein, not Preucil. They also had postitions in Houston Symphony and St. Louis Symphony prior to their appointments in Cleveland. Just wanted to clear that up.
Sam
Are you a bass player at CIM?? You sound very LOYAL to the CO – get out and find out what the rest of the world is like!!
Sam
Are you a bass player at CIM?? You sound very LOYAL to the CO – get out and find out what the rest of the world is like!!
this article didnt get to the core of what is really the issue here. Preucils (assumed) behavior with his students has NOTHING to do with his position as concertmaster. The head of the article should have read something more along the lines of “CIM pays students to keep quiet about innapropriate behavior by professors.”
His playing is amazing and he is an incredible leader. There is a reason why Philly and Cleveland were fighting over him. Jeanne and Steve are amazing musicians who went through several rounds to get these positions. Leave them alone. Lexi is a child. This is not her issue. leave her alone.
Who cares who the man is sleeping with? isnt he gay anyway? If it is a student that is terrible and hopefully CIM will act appropriately and fire him immediately. He does not deserve to teach if he is messing around with his students. And shame on CIM for not letting him go.
this article didnt get to the core of what is really the issue here. Preucils (assumed) behavior with his students has NOTHING to do with his position as concertmaster. The head of the article should have read something more along the lines of “CIM pays students to keep quiet about innapropriate behavior by professors.”
His playing is amazing and he is an incredible leader. There is a reason why Philly and Cleveland were fighting over him. Jeanne and Steve are amazing musicians who went through several rounds to get these positions. Leave them alone. Lexi is a child. This is not her issue. leave her alone.
Who cares who the man is sleeping with? isnt he gay anyway? If it is a student that is terrible and hopefully CIM will act appropriately and fire him immediately. He does not deserve to teach if he is messing around with his students. And shame on CIM for not letting him go.
Another CO Musician and anon,
You guys are such meanies.
You make me cry.
…must be strong.
Another CO Musician and anon,
You guys are such meanies.
You make me cry.
…must be strong.
In response to MARK…When the CO puts an ad in the paper for a vacancy in their orchestra..well yes..they do “Owe you something”..they owe you the respect of making the audition process as fair as possible for all those musicians comming out to play for them..this attitude of..well..”just don’t audition there”..Uhhh..do you know how few good jobs there are in this field..for a violinist..maybe 10 a year..
In response to MARK…When the CO puts an ad in the paper for a vacancy in their orchestra..well yes..they do “Owe you something”..they owe you the respect of making the audition process as fair as possible for all those musicians comming out to play for them..this attitude of..well..”just don’t audition there”..Uhhh..do you know how few good jobs there are in this field..for a violinist..maybe 10 a year..
m.b.,
You use the words “amazing” and “incredible” without enough discretion.
m.b.,
You use the words “amazing” and “incredible” without enough discretion.
Kaiser (i give you credit for thinking of an interesting fake name – I liked that movie also),
I use those words with experience. As a professional musician i do not use descriptives casually or lightly. I meant it and it was written thoughtfully.
Kaiser (i give you credit for thinking of an interesting fake name – I liked that movie also),
I use those words with experience. As a professional musician i do not use descriptives casually or lightly. I meant it and it was written thoughtfully.
Sam..there are lots of good therapists in Cleveland..look into that
Sam..there are lots of good therapists in Cleveland..look into that
Anon and CO,
You guys have no idea what you’re talking about. The Cleveland Orchestra isn’t good anymore.
Anon and CO,
You guys have no idea what you’re talking about. The Cleveland Orchestra isn’t good anymore.
Anon and CO,
You guys have no idea what you’re talking about. The Cleveland Orchestra isn’t good anymore.
Anon and CO,
You guys have no idea what you’re talking about. The Cleveland Orchestra isn’t good anymore.
For the record, there have recently been more non-CIM hired in the orchestra than CIM. 2nd horn, percussion, bass, assistant flute, tuba, 4th trumpet all came from various musical institutions. As for string players who have been hired who went to CIM, they are talented, wonderful musicians who happen to be getting jobs all over the country. Why wouldn’t they also win jobs with Cleveland when they’re winning in Philly, Minnesota, Houston, Boston, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York etc,? This just shows the wonderful education CIM offers! The Cleveland Orchestra simply hires the best player, no matter where they come from, and what their “experience” level is and what last name they have. This is why the level has remained the highest for all these years.
For the record, there have recently been more non-CIM hired in the orchestra than CIM. 2nd horn, percussion, bass, assistant flute, tuba, 4th trumpet all came from various musical institutions. As for string players who have been hired who went to CIM, they are talented, wonderful musicians who happen to be getting jobs all over the country. Why wouldn’t they also win jobs with Cleveland when they’re winning in Philly, Minnesota, Houston, Boston, Los Angeles, Chicago, New York etc,? This just shows the wonderful education CIM offers! The Cleveland Orchestra simply hires the best player, no matter where they come from, and what their “experience” level is and what last name they have. This is why the level has remained the highest for all these years.
Anyone care to point out how Lev got his job? Dohnanyi appointed him to that 4th chair because he thought that it would improve his attitude to be closer to the front. THAT backfired. Lev couldn’t even get a concertmaster job in the Seattle Symphony. His attempt to backstab Bill has only brought a shit storm down on the entire Cleveland Orchestra, and the musicians should be infuriated. Bill is a beautiful, creative, expressive musician, a fine teacher with students occupying positions around the country (including prominent concertmaster positions). His career speaks for itself, and Lev coming forward with this story that really has nothing to do with him is an act of jealousy abd bitterness. Lev, if you don’t like the way something is run in the CO take it to management, not a 3rd rate reporter. If you don’t like the way things are going at CIM, stay out of it, it is not your business.
Anyone care to point out how Lev got his job? Dohnanyi appointed him to that 4th chair because he thought that it would improve his attitude to be closer to the front. THAT backfired. Lev couldn’t even get a concertmaster job in the Seattle Symphony. His attempt to backstab Bill has only brought a shit storm down on the entire Cleveland Orchestra, and the musicians should be infuriated. Bill is a beautiful, creative, expressive musician, a fine teacher with students occupying positions around the country (including prominent concertmaster positions). His career speaks for itself, and Lev coming forward with this story that really has nothing to do with him is an act of jealousy abd bitterness. Lev, if you don’t like the way something is run in the CO take it to management, not a 3rd rate reporter. If you don’t like the way things are going at CIM, stay out of it, it is not your business.
Preucil does not make three times thae average concermaster salary.
http://www.artsjournal.com/adaptistration/archives/2007/02/2006_compensati_4.html
Hint to reporter- the info is out there and easy to find
m.b.,
“I use those words with experience. As a professional musician i do not use descriptives casually or lightly. I meant it and it was written thoughtfully.”
Wow. I didn’t realize that you are an imbecile. As a professional musician I’ll can tell that you have no taste.
Preucil does not make three times thae average concermaster salary.
http://www.artsjournal.com/adaptistration/archives/2007/02/2006_compensati_4.html
Hint to reporter- the info is out there and easy to find
m.b.,
“I use those words with experience. As a professional musician i do not use descriptives casually or lightly. I meant it and it was written thoughtfully.”
Wow. I didn’t realize that you are an imbecile. As a professional musician I’ll can tell that you have no taste.
At least Lev had the guts (or stupidity) to put his name to his 3rd hand accusations. Some of the anonymous quotes in the article are of course the work of Ellen De Pasquale. Do we really want to discuss the sex lives of CO musicians? (the woman has earned the name associate concertmatress for a reason… with some angry wives to prove it) And Ellen, when you perjured yourself in a sexual harrassment trial for Jah jah Ling did you ever think that you would be casting these stones? Just another bitter individual blinded by Bill’s spotlight and jealous of his success. Of course Ellen knows nothing of nepotism and opportunity given based on family name.
At least Lev had the guts (or stupidity) to put his name to his 3rd hand accusations. Some of the anonymous quotes in the article are of course the work of Ellen De Pasquale. Do we really want to discuss the sex lives of CO musicians? (the woman has earned the name associate concertmatress for a reason… with some angry wives to prove it) And Ellen, when you perjured yourself in a sexual harrassment trial for Jah jah Ling did you ever think that you would be casting these stones? Just another bitter individual blinded by Bill’s spotlight and jealous of his success. Of course Ellen knows nothing of nepotism and opportunity given based on family name.
Kaiser,
“I’ll” can tell that you are the one that is an imbecile.
Kaiser,
“I’ll” can tell that you are the one that is an imbecile.
—–
HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAAA
Associate Concertmattress
—–
HAHAHAHAHHAAHAHAAA
Associate Concertmattress
hee hee hee
It’s about time Ellen was dragged into this cesspool where she belongs.
hee hee hee
It’s about time Ellen was dragged into this cesspool where she belongs.
“Meanwhile, Preucil was the top-paid concertmaster in the country during the 2002-2003 season. The average concertmaster salary was $190,113. Preucil made more than three times that.”
3 x $190,113 = $570,339
And he makes MORE than that. Like $600,000!!!! DAMN That dude is rich!!!!
“Meanwhile, Preucil was the top-paid concertmaster in the country during the 2002-2003 season. The average concertmaster salary was $190,113. Preucil made more than three times that.”
3 x $190,113 = $570,339
And he makes MORE than that. Like $600,000!!!! DAMN That dude is rich!!!!
Three times the salary could have been the case. The figures on the Artsjournal website are from last year, not 02-03. Also, maybe the author of the Scene article was taking other orchestras that are not ICSOM or IGSOBM in to account, such as ROPA etc.
Three times the salary could have been the case. The figures on the Artsjournal website are from last year, not 02-03. Also, maybe the author of the Scene article was taking other orchestras that are not ICSOM or IGSOBM in to account, such as ROPA etc.
Any musician in the field these days knows the cleveland orchestra isn’t better than other top american orchestras and is desperately hanging on to the “big five” status their budget allows them to claim, due partially to their unfair and unethical audition procedures. Preucil is a really great violinist but is just part of a larger problem there.
Any musician in the field these days knows the cleveland orchestra isn’t better than other top american orchestras and is desperately hanging on to the “big five” status their budget allows them to claim, due partially to their unfair and unethical audition procedures. Preucil is a really great violinist but is just part of a larger problem there.
–
Simon,
From the article:
“The average concertmaster salary was $190,113. Preucil made more than three times that.”
That would mean he made more than $570,000. According to Drew McManus he only made $370,000. Either he took the biggest paycut in history or someone is lying.
–
It doens’t matter if Meiser meant the ROPA or not the ROPA… She said 3 x $190,000. THAT’S WHAT SHE WROTE. She didn’t write anything about ROPA, she didn’t infer anything about ROPA, she gave 2 figures:
$190,113
and the number 3.
If she wrote the number “2” she would have still been wrong.
$190,113 x 2 = $380,226.
According to Drew McManus Preucil made $370,154. Still less than $380,226.
Clearly, the author is lying.
–
–
Simon,
From the article:
“The average concertmaster salary was $190,113. Preucil made more than three times that.”
That would mean he made more than $570,000. According to Drew McManus he only made $370,000. Either he took the biggest paycut in history or someone is lying.
–
It doens’t matter if Meiser meant the ROPA or not the ROPA… She said 3 x $190,000. THAT’S WHAT SHE WROTE. She didn’t write anything about ROPA, she didn’t infer anything about ROPA, she gave 2 figures:
$190,113
and the number 3.
If she wrote the number “2” she would have still been wrong.
$190,113 x 2 = $380,226.
According to Drew McManus Preucil made $370,154. Still less than $380,226.
Clearly, the author is lying.
–
The point wasn’t to say anyone is lying or not. The point is the year you are looking at on the report on McManus site and the year in the article are completely different. That is the point. Either way, he makes a great amount of cash, which will come in handy if he ever wants to sue for slander.
The point wasn’t to say anyone is lying or not. The point is the year you are looking at on the report on McManus site and the year in the article are completely different. That is the point. Either way, he makes a great amount of cash, which will come in handy if he ever wants to sue for slander.
yeah yeah enough about money…
Let’s hear some more about SEX!!!!
yeah yeah enough about money…
Let’s hear some more about SEX!!!!
These comments have become so petty and distasteful. Anger is distorting your capabilities to think or write. The musicians who spoke to the reporter did not write the article nor are they the issue. I can fully understand that the truth about Mr. Preucil seems to be devastating to some of his supporters and students, but if anything your violent comments only discredit you and do not help him or the CO, either. Maybe when musicians are whorshipped as Gods, as it seems Mr. Preucil is by some of you, the fall from the pedestal is just too much. To those of us on the outside who admire the orchestras playing, the pettiness and stupidity of the discourse amongst you is disappointing to say the least. I thought classical musicians had more intelligence.
These comments have become so petty and distasteful. Anger is distorting your capabilities to think or write. The musicians who spoke to the reporter did not write the article nor are they the issue. I can fully understand that the truth about Mr. Preucil seems to be devastating to some of his supporters and students, but if anything your violent comments only discredit you and do not help him or the CO, either. Maybe when musicians are whorshipped as Gods, as it seems Mr. Preucil is by some of you, the fall from the pedestal is just too much. To those of us on the outside who admire the orchestras playing, the pettiness and stupidity of the discourse amongst you is disappointing to say the least. I thought classical musicians had more intelligence.
Simon,
What do you not understand about this?
The article says he made over $570,000 in the 2002-2003 season.
Quote:
“Meanwhile, Preucil was the top-paid concertmaster in the country during the 2002-2003 season. The average concertmaster salary was $190,113. Preucil made more than three times that.”
According to ISCOM During the 2003-2004 season his salary was $370,000.
Are we supposed to believe that he took a $200,000 pay cut.
It is flatly untrue.
Simon,
What do you not understand about this?
The article says he made over $570,000 in the 2002-2003 season.
Quote:
“Meanwhile, Preucil was the top-paid concertmaster in the country during the 2002-2003 season. The average concertmaster salary was $190,113. Preucil made more than three times that.”
According to ISCOM During the 2003-2004 season his salary was $370,000.
Are we supposed to believe that he took a $200,000 pay cut.
It is flatly untrue.
I am appalled at this base discourse as well. Who would ever think that performers would be petty, short-sighted and jealous? Shocking!
I am appalled at this base discourse as well. Who would ever think that performers would be petty, short-sighted and jealous? Shocking!
Clearly you do not get my point. You need to look at the YEARS. Just saying it COULD be possible that in 02-03 he made 3X. You don’t know, you don’t have THAT 02-03 report. do you!?
Clearly you do not get my point. You need to look at the YEARS. Just saying it COULD be possible that in 02-03 he made 3X. You don’t know, you don’t have THAT 02-03 report. do you!?
Ellen De Pasquale got a job in Cleveland away from where her influence lies, as associate concertmaster. Ellen was concertmaster of the Florida Orchestra before that. How would Preucil’s sister and daughter fare if they auditioned for Philly or anywhere else? I keep reading (no doubt posts from Cleveland people) that Preucil’s relatives are “incredible” and “amazing”, then, by your standards Miss De Pasquale should rate as a rare phenomenon on the violin.
The comment about Lev Polyakin “not even” getting concertmaster of Seattle, and about Dohnanyi promoting him to help improve his attitude are about as stupid as can be. It would be insulting to idiots to call the person who posted that an idiot. If you know that much about him, then I’m sure you know he was offered the position of concertmaster of a major orchestra too. I don’t think he did the right thing in making public comments about private matters. There were other ways of trying to improve certain things that definitely need to be improved, and without making such a huge mess!
A lot of things can’t be explained or reasoned to those young people who haven’t spent time at conservatories other than CIM and haven’t heard orchestras other than the Cleveland Orchestra. Sure, you all are in a good place and getting good training, and you definitely have a world-class orchestra to enjoy. And many other places offer these things up to the same level, with some aspects being better (I know that’s hard for you to believe.)
Ellen De Pasquale got a job in Cleveland away from where her influence lies, as associate concertmaster. Ellen was concertmaster of the Florida Orchestra before that. How would Preucil’s sister and daughter fare if they auditioned for Philly or anywhere else? I keep reading (no doubt posts from Cleveland people) that Preucil’s relatives are “incredible” and “amazing”, then, by your standards Miss De Pasquale should rate as a rare phenomenon on the violin.
The comment about Lev Polyakin “not even” getting concertmaster of Seattle, and about Dohnanyi promoting him to help improve his attitude are about as stupid as can be. It would be insulting to idiots to call the person who posted that an idiot. If you know that much about him, then I’m sure you know he was offered the position of concertmaster of a major orchestra too. I don’t think he did the right thing in making public comments about private matters. There were other ways of trying to improve certain things that definitely need to be improved, and without making such a huge mess!
A lot of things can’t be explained or reasoned to those young people who haven’t spent time at conservatories other than CIM and haven’t heard orchestras other than the Cleveland Orchestra. Sure, you all are in a good place and getting good training, and you definitely have a world-class orchestra to enjoy. And many other places offer these things up to the same level, with some aspects being better (I know that’s hard for you to believe.)
I remember a vienna phil concertmaster was accused of sexual harrasment a couple of years back, his name was Shivo or something.
I’m not shocked about nepotism, it happens everywhere but sexual harrasment is a no no. If he wasn’t rich he would be in prison
I remember a vienna phil concertmaster was accused of sexual harrasment a couple of years back, his name was Shivo or something.
I’m not shocked about nepotism, it happens everywhere but sexual harrasment is a no no. If he wasn’t rich he would be in prison
Ellen and Lev did not do this Bill. Bill did this to Bill.
Ellen and Lev did not do this Bill. Bill did this to Bill.
Simon,
Actually I do have the 2002-2003 figure. (And so will you after you go to the following website)
http://www.artsjournal.com/adaptistration/archives/2007/02/2006_compensati_4.html
Preucil made 0.55% LESS in 2003-2004 than in 2002-2003. He made $372,190 in 2002-2003. That is a far cry from the outrageous figure of $570,000
Go to this website:
http://www.artsjournal.com/adaptistration/archives/2007/02/2006_compensati_4.html
See, now you can figure it out on your own.
Simon,
Actually I do have the 2002-2003 figure. (And so will you after you go to the following website)
http://www.artsjournal.com/adaptistration/archives/2007/02/2006_compensati_4.html
Preucil made 0.55% LESS in 2003-2004 than in 2002-2003. He made $372,190 in 2002-2003. That is a far cry from the outrageous figure of $570,000
Go to this website:
http://www.artsjournal.com/adaptistration/archives/2007/02/2006_compensati_4.html
See, now you can figure it out on your own.
How DARE you guys call me a Concertmattress!
It’s not true!
How DARE you guys call me a Concertmattress!
It’s not true!
Congrats to all of you obsessed with salary. Now you have taken the spotlight off of the issue. It doesn’t matter if he made a buck or a million. CIM and the relations between student and teacher seems to be the relevant thing here.
Congrats to all of you obsessed with salary. Now you have taken the spotlight off of the issue. It doesn’t matter if he made a buck or a million. CIM and the relations between student and teacher seems to be the relevant thing here.
Hey, everyone! Britney shaved her hair off!! Oh my god that is so much more important!!!!!!!
Hey, everyone! Britney shaved her hair off!! Oh my god that is so much more important!!!!!!!
W.E.M.,
The point is not the salary. The point is a blatant lie in the middle of an article which makes broad and serious allegations. The author of this article inflated the salary figure by 150% to make a point. Perhaps she also inflated allegations of sexual misconduct and nepotism.
Regardless of your previous conceptions about the man in question this article has been caught with at least one BLATANT untruth.
W.E.M.,
The point is not the salary. The point is a blatant lie in the middle of an article which makes broad and serious allegations. The author of this article inflated the salary figure by 150% to make a point. Perhaps she also inflated allegations of sexual misconduct and nepotism.
Regardless of your previous conceptions about the man in question this article has been caught with at least one BLATANT untruth.
Ellen,
You are a superb player and a beautiful woman, no wonder you bring out such jealousy. Don’t let these horrible comments get to you. I am sorry to find out what ugly spirits talk on behalf of the Cleveland Orchestra.
Ellen,
You are a superb player and a beautiful woman, no wonder you bring out such jealousy. Don’t let these horrible comments get to you. I am sorry to find out what ugly spirits talk on behalf of the Cleveland Orchestra.
$370,000 + tours + recordings could well = $570,000. Of course, thisis NOT the issue. Sin is Sin, even if an “amazing” “kind-hearted” God whose only talent is to make pleasant sounds on a trivial wooden box commits it.
$370,000 + tours + recordings could well = $570,000. Of course, thisis NOT the issue. Sin is Sin, even if an “amazing” “kind-hearted” God whose only talent is to make pleasant sounds on a trivial wooden box commits it.
Thank you Concertgoer,
I am beautiful and a superb player. At least you understand.
Thank you Concertgoer,
I am beautiful and a superb player. At least you understand.
I never had sex with that woman…Ms. De Pasquale…
I never had sex with that woman…Ms. De Pasquale…
If Preucil were concertmaster of redanorchestra instead of the CO, earning what, maybe $500 a year? you can bet there wouldn’t be dozens of women ready to jump in the sack with him! And what of his wife? I feel sorry for her. I think the article was written because people desrve to know that musicians (students, performers and teachers) are just as base as everyone else, whether they are young students or highly paid professionals in evening clothes.
If Preucil were concertmaster of redanorchestra instead of the CO, earning what, maybe $500 a year? you can bet there wouldn’t be dozens of women ready to jump in the sack with him! And what of his wife? I feel sorry for her. I think the article was written because people desrve to know that musicians (students, performers and teachers) are just as base as everyone else, whether they are young students or highly paid professionals in evening clothes.
Now we have imposters?
It’s really not funny
Now we have imposters?
It’s really not funny
Anon,
“$370,000 + tours + recordings could well = $570,000.”
Sure, and he could have made $5 million by investing in Google. That is not the issue. The issue is whether or not the author of this article lied. When you write: The salary of other concertmasters is x. Preucil made more than 3x. It is stating that his SALARY was 3x. Clearly it was not.
For people that know this man they have their own opinions: “He harasses women vs. he does not harass women.” OR “There is nepotism vs. there is not nepotism.”
I don’t know him. But I see something (in this case about his salary) that is blatantly untrue in an article… well it makes me question the validity of the other claims.
Anon,
“$370,000 + tours + recordings could well = $570,000.”
Sure, and he could have made $5 million by investing in Google. That is not the issue. The issue is whether or not the author of this article lied. When you write: The salary of other concertmasters is x. Preucil made more than 3x. It is stating that his SALARY was 3x. Clearly it was not.
For people that know this man they have their own opinions: “He harasses women vs. he does not harass women.” OR “There is nepotism vs. there is not nepotism.”
I don’t know him. But I see something (in this case about his salary) that is blatantly untrue in an article… well it makes me question the validity of the other claims.
He hasn’t denied the sexual harrasment accusations. Nepotism isn’t right but I wont complain about that but Sexual Harrasment is really bad.
He hasn’t denied the sexual harrasment accusations. Nepotism isn’t right but I wont complain about that but Sexual Harrasment is really bad.
Listen, “you guys are pathetic” (if that is your real name) I think the imposters are funny.
Kudos and love.
The best part so far was that woman who asked her name to be withheld and it wasn’t. HAH HAH!
Listen, “you guys are pathetic” (if that is your real name) I think the imposters are funny.
Kudos and love.
The best part so far was that woman who asked her name to be withheld and it wasn’t. HAH HAH!
JUST STOP!!! Go on with your lives. Go practice, everyone. Nothing more to talk about..
JUST STOP!!! Go on with your lives. Go practice, everyone. Nothing more to talk about..
Hey guys, get on with your lives. In no way is this hypocritical for me to write on a webpage while not getting on with my life.
Hey guys, get on with your lives. In no way is this hypocritical for me to write on a webpage while not getting on with my life.
One could write the same kind of article and say the exact opposite:
Preucil can’t get his family into the orchestra (Lexi didn’t win the audition and he has other musician family members who are not in the CO.)
One could also contend that he doesn’t get “close” to his female students.
It would be very easy to find anonymous sources for these contentions.
When I grow up, I want to be a “reporter.”
One could write the same kind of article and say the exact opposite:
Preucil can’t get his family into the orchestra (Lexi didn’t win the audition and he has other musician family members who are not in the CO.)
One could also contend that he doesn’t get “close” to his female students.
It would be very easy to find anonymous sources for these contentions.
When I grow up, I want to be a “reporter.”
These disparaging remarks about Ellen are slanderous, inaccurate, and revolting. She is one of the kindest, most intelligent musicians in the orchestra, who has a strong character and high integrity and standards set for herself. Do not slander someone you do not know.
Slander – defaming someone or their reputation.
These disparaging remarks about Ellen are slanderous, inaccurate, and revolting. She is one of the kindest, most intelligent musicians in the orchestra, who has a strong character and high integrity and standards set for herself. Do not slander someone you do not know.
Slander – defaming someone or their reputation.
If Lexi Preucil were not the daughter of Bill Preucil, she would not be subbing and touring with the Cleveland Orchestra, or ANY major orchestra…zip, zilch, nada…it sickens myself and many of my colleagues that eventually, Lexi will more likely than not have a permanent spot in the Cleveland Orchestra when there are many other musicians who are much more qualified for the position…they don’t come around very often.
If Lexi Preucil were not the daughter of Bill Preucil, she would not be subbing and touring with the Cleveland Orchestra, or ANY major orchestra…zip, zilch, nada…it sickens myself and many of my colleagues that eventually, Lexi will more likely than not have a permanent spot in the Cleveland Orchestra when there are many other musicians who are much more qualified for the position…they don’t come around very often.
BRAVo to Rebecca Meiser for coming forward with the article that was long overdue, and serves as a wakeup call to the management and the music director. There’s no excuse for amangement to allow Bill Preucil’s abusive conduct ever, and it certainly has no place in eduction. Great artists are NOT exempt of responsibility. They must not let Bill continue manipulating the audition process and therefore threatening the quality of the Cleveland Orchestra. Perhaps, the damage has already been done. To prove the point that the quality of the playing has gone down, just call WCLV FM104.9 to have the radio station replay last night’s solo performance by Bill and the Brandenberg Concerto by other members of the orchestra, and let us know if that’s a perfromance by first-rated musicians. That’s a disgrace and perhaps, we will have Donald Rosenberg rewrite his review, but make sure he has his hearing aid in place. Then tell us honestly, what kind of quality you are hearing? After all, you are the EXPERT in this field.
BRAVo to Rebecca Meiser for coming forward with the article that was long overdue, and serves as a wakeup call to the management and the music director. There’s no excuse for amangement to allow Bill Preucil’s abusive conduct ever, and it certainly has no place in eduction. Great artists are NOT exempt of responsibility. They must not let Bill continue manipulating the audition process and therefore threatening the quality of the Cleveland Orchestra. Perhaps, the damage has already been done. To prove the point that the quality of the playing has gone down, just call WCLV FM104.9 to have the radio station replay last night’s solo performance by Bill and the Brandenberg Concerto by other members of the orchestra, and let us know if that’s a perfromance by first-rated musicians. That’s a disgrace and perhaps, we will have Donald Rosenberg rewrite his review, but make sure he has his hearing aid in place. Then tell us honestly, what kind of quality you are hearing? After all, you are the EXPERT in this field.
After reading all above comments in regard to unfair audition practice, you got it all wrong. It’s not the audition s that got steve and Jenny the positions. After all, the audition is just a formality. For every violin opening, you are looking a 200 or 300+ applicants, but only 20 QUALIFIED violinists are invited to the audition. The truth was that anyone who got invited was good enough to play in this orchestra. But who makes that decision? You guess it, Bill Preucil gets to invited the 20 most qualified violinists. You are all right about the maestro is the one makes the hiring decision and Bill can’t offer his sister and brother-in-law a job. But he can certainly invite his loved ones to the audition. We all know that three of his loved ones got invited because XXXXXXXX. (that’s no secret.) Why are they here working? Because they won’t get job offers in other major orchestra. Why not? Because they are not qualified. They were hired by Maestro Dohnanyi during his last few years with the Orchestra. Reasons unknown?
This great orchestra’s reputation has been permantly and irrevocably damaged by its leader. Let’s hope that the current maestro will take the emsemble back to the highest quality under his leadership.
After reading all above comments in regard to unfair audition practice, you got it all wrong. It’s not the audition s that got steve and Jenny the positions. After all, the audition is just a formality. For every violin opening, you are looking a 200 or 300+ applicants, but only 20 QUALIFIED violinists are invited to the audition. The truth was that anyone who got invited was good enough to play in this orchestra. But who makes that decision? You guess it, Bill Preucil gets to invited the 20 most qualified violinists. You are all right about the maestro is the one makes the hiring decision and Bill can’t offer his sister and brother-in-law a job. But he can certainly invite his loved ones to the audition. We all know that three of his loved ones got invited because XXXXXXXX. (that’s no secret.) Why are they here working? Because they won’t get job offers in other major orchestra. Why not? Because they are not qualified. They were hired by Maestro Dohnanyi during his last few years with the Orchestra. Reasons unknown?
This great orchestra’s reputation has been permantly and irrevocably damaged by its leader. Let’s hope that the current maestro will take the emsemble back to the highest quality under his leadership.
With Welser-Möst as music director….dream on.
With Welser-Möst as music director….dream on.
I am concerned you migh be right.
I am concerned you migh be right.
Slander is the act of making a FALSE statement.
Slander is the act of making a FALSE statement.
First of all, kudos to the person who wrote this article–I attended the Cleveland Institute of Music for 2 years…and yes, rumors concerning Preucil and his affinity for female students ran rampant throughout the school. While I do believe that he is a gifted musician, I also believe that the rumors concerning the above stated incident are true. I believe the Cleveland Orchestra is indeed one of the greatest orchestra’s in the US. However…since when can someone commit a “crime” i.e. sexual harassment etc…and not have consequences? Having seen the “dark side” of the Cleveland Institute’s administration myself, I am not surprised to hear that Preucil is still on faculty at the institute. I just have one question: How many more female students will CIM be able to support if situations like this keep happening? Maybe David Cerone should be forced to take a pay-cut…???
First of all, kudos to the person who wrote this article–I attended the Cleveland Institute of Music for 2 years…and yes, rumors concerning Preucil and his affinity for female students ran rampant throughout the school. While I do believe that he is a gifted musician, I also believe that the rumors concerning the above stated incident are true. I believe the Cleveland Orchestra is indeed one of the greatest orchestra’s in the US. However…since when can someone commit a “crime” i.e. sexual harassment etc…and not have consequences? Having seen the “dark side” of the Cleveland Institute’s administration myself, I am not surprised to hear that Preucil is still on faculty at the institute. I just have one question: How many more female students will CIM be able to support if situations like this keep happening? Maybe David Cerone should be forced to take a pay-cut…???
While it saddens and sickens those who are finally learning about the darker side of the orchestra’s internal affairs, the worst thing the reader can do is ignore the problem and simply cry “Slander!” Why? Because THIS IS THE TRUTH, and sadly, no one has been brave enough to reveal it to the public until now.
I agree that the article appears one-sided and difficult to believe due to the lack of named sources. However, you must understand that this is because members of the orchestra have been afraid to speak out. This fact alone shows Preucil’s clout, and how he has a history of abusing his power in the past – so much so that orchestra members fear that if they publicize their names with their comments, they will either lose their jobs or be forced to leave after Preucil purposely makes it an uncomfortable working environment.
It’s unfortunate that his family members’ names are sullied. They don’t deserve it, which is why I believe the article focuses on Preucil’s corruption. Sadly, his family members are tied to his actions, so it is impossible to leave their names out when detailing his outright arrogance and abuse of power.
Regardless of what anyone’s opinion is of the journalism and how the article was written, Clevelanders should not ignore the main point – the Cleveland Orchestra has a problem. For those who really care about our “band,” we need to address it. And informing the public and getting past the stage of denial is the first step.
For that alone . . . Bravo Rebecca Meiser.
While it saddens and sickens those who are finally learning about the darker side of the orchestra’s internal affairs, the worst thing the reader can do is ignore the problem and simply cry “Slander!” Why? Because THIS IS THE TRUTH, and sadly, no one has been brave enough to reveal it to the public until now.
I agree that the article appears one-sided and difficult to believe due to the lack of named sources. However, you must understand that this is because members of the orchestra have been afraid to speak out. This fact alone shows Preucil’s clout, and how he has a history of abusing his power in the past – so much so that orchestra members fear that if they publicize their names with their comments, they will either lose their jobs or be forced to leave after Preucil purposely makes it an uncomfortable working environment.
It’s unfortunate that his family members’ names are sullied. They don’t deserve it, which is why I believe the article focuses on Preucil’s corruption. Sadly, his family members are tied to his actions, so it is impossible to leave their names out when detailing his outright arrogance and abuse of power.
Regardless of what anyone’s opinion is of the journalism and how the article was written, Clevelanders should not ignore the main point – the Cleveland Orchestra has a problem. For those who really care about our “band,” we need to address it. And informing the public and getting past the stage of denial is the first step.
For that alone . . . Bravo Rebecca Meiser.
Please stop insulting the orchestra I know and love. Most of us on stage simply love making music together. We are able to do so without trashing other orchestras in the country and we would like the same respect in return. I’m sure there are people in every orchestra that could be slandered and singled out and turned into a soap opera. I want to personally thank every member of my orchestra who is staying positive so that we continue to keep making beautiful music together.
Please stop insulting the orchestra I know and love. Most of us on stage simply love making music together. We are able to do so without trashing other orchestras in the country and we would like the same respect in return. I’m sure there are people in every orchestra that could be slandered and singled out and turned into a soap opera. I want to personally thank every member of my orchestra who is staying positive so that we continue to keep making beautiful music together.
Give your name, COWARD!!!
Give your name, COWARD!!!
Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black, anonymous?
Isn’t that the pot calling the kettle black, anonymous?
Dear Anonymous,
You do realize that anyone can use any name on here, right? Putting your name at the top means nothing. Obviously the person who put the name Ellen, put it up as a joke. Obviously not Ellen. I could sign my name Rebecca Meiser. So what? Giving your name doens’t help.
Writing here is like writing on a bathroom stall. Would you sign your real name there?
Dear Anonymous,
You do realize that anyone can use any name on here, right? Putting your name at the top means nothing. Obviously the person who put the name Ellen, put it up as a joke. Obviously not Ellen. I could sign my name Rebecca Meiser. So what? Giving your name doens’t help.
Writing here is like writing on a bathroom stall. Would you sign your real name there?
This is a terrific article that clearly shows what goes on in most American orchetras. A parallel story should be done on Pittsburgh Symphony’s Andres Cardenes; God knows how many of his students, especially females, have been admitted to the orchestra or gone on tours.
Although the conductor usually has the final say, during the filtering process to a final, most of the time there is no conductor present; until the final round!
I wish I had a relative like Preucil or that I were a sexy, cute girl!
Ludwig
This is a terrific article that clearly shows what goes on in most American orchetras. A parallel story should be done on Pittsburgh Symphony’s Andres Cardenes; God knows how many of his students, especially females, have been admitted to the orchestra or gone on tours.
Although the conductor usually has the final say, during the filtering process to a final, most of the time there is no conductor present; until the final round!
I wish I had a relative like Preucil or that I were a sexy, cute girl!
Ludwig
Irony and sarcasm are wasted on imbeciles.
Irony and sarcasm are wasted on imbeciles.
I like anonymous calling CO a coward for being anonyomous….
Now that the apt comparison to a bathroom stall has been made, can we all give it up?
I like anonymous calling CO a coward for being anonyomous….
Now that the apt comparison to a bathroom stall has been made, can we all give it up?
Nepotism, improper behaviour with students, a longstanding arrogant and dismissive attitude towards other orchestras and their musicians, even taking over other orchestras’ halls… its not surprising that people will be angry.
Nepotism, improper behaviour with students, a longstanding arrogant and dismissive attitude towards other orchestras and their musicians, even taking over other orchestras’ halls… its not surprising that people will be angry.
”
Another CO Musician and anon,
You guys are such meanies.
You make me cry.
…must be strong.
Comment by sam — February 18, 2007 @ 11:43AM
#
_
Hey Another CO musician-
Why don’t YOU shut up and grow up.
I win.
_
Comment by sam — February 18, 2007 @ 01:08AM”
I’m guessing theres a troll who is using peoples names trying to add fuel to the fire…especially since other people are experiencing it…whoever you are you really need to find something better to do
to another CO musician, if you read what i originally posted i said i did NOT condone nepotism or sexual harassment, i just stated that it is not a problem exclusive to the musical world.
and no I am not a bass player and I am not affiliated with the Cleveland Orchestra.
”
Another CO Musician and anon,
You guys are such meanies.
You make me cry.
…must be strong.
Comment by sam — February 18, 2007 @ 11:43AM
#
_
Hey Another CO musician-
Why don’t YOU shut up and grow up.
I win.
_
Comment by sam — February 18, 2007 @ 01:08AM”
I’m guessing theres a troll who is using peoples names trying to add fuel to the fire…especially since other people are experiencing it…whoever you are you really need to find something better to do
to another CO musician, if you read what i originally posted i said i did NOT condone nepotism or sexual harassment, i just stated that it is not a problem exclusive to the musical world.
and no I am not a bass player and I am not affiliated with the Cleveland Orchestra.
David Cerone is stepping down from his duties as president of CIM after this season. He has done many great things for CIM over the years and worked tirelessly. He has been a fine president, a great violin teacher, and true friend to the Institute.
None of you have offered any firsthand knowledge or quotes from him regarding this matter. You do not know his opinion or what his preferred course of action was. If you think he is irresponsible then you don’t know him.
David Cerone is stepping down from his duties as president of CIM after this season. He has done many great things for CIM over the years and worked tirelessly. He has been a fine president, a great violin teacher, and true friend to the Institute.
None of you have offered any firsthand knowledge or quotes from him regarding this matter. You do not know his opinion or what his preferred course of action was. If you think he is irresponsible then you don’t know him.
The bigger issue here is the fact that musicians and management don’t seem to realize that they are simply stewards of these great civic organizations. None of them are indispensible — they can all be replaced. The patrons, boards, corporations and foundations whose support is so critical cannot be replaced so easily. Perhaps it is not a coincidence that the CO has lost half of its corporate sponsorship and has dwindling ticket sales. In conservative Cleveland, an abusive concertmaster will certainly be a detriment to the fundraising efforts. Time for all parties at the CO and CIM to clean up their acts if they want to remain solvent. The next lawsuit may not be settled so easily. I doubt whether either organization could survive a $20 or $30M hit.
The bigger issue here is the fact that musicians and management don’t seem to realize that they are simply stewards of these great civic organizations. None of them are indispensible — they can all be replaced. The patrons, boards, corporations and foundations whose support is so critical cannot be replaced so easily. Perhaps it is not a coincidence that the CO has lost half of its corporate sponsorship and has dwindling ticket sales. In conservative Cleveland, an abusive concertmaster will certainly be a detriment to the fundraising efforts. Time for all parties at the CO and CIM to clean up their acts if they want to remain solvent. The next lawsuit may not be settled so easily. I doubt whether either organization could survive a $20 or $30M hit.
This is getting out of control. Please turn “comment section” off. This is going to destroy Cleveland’s gems. Please turn comment off..let CIM and Cleveland Orchestra deal with it now. This stuff happens everyday in other businesses. (Sad) It is good that it was brought to light, finally, with this particular situation–but now it’s getting scary. Just get him out of there. Or,Preucil–RESIGN! CIM and Cleveland Orchestra need to make a public apology for these things–let it be over!
This is getting out of control. Please turn “comment section” off. This is going to destroy Cleveland’s gems. Please turn comment off..let CIM and Cleveland Orchestra deal with it now. This stuff happens everyday in other businesses. (Sad) It is good that it was brought to light, finally, with this particular situation–but now it’s getting scary. Just get him out of there. Or,Preucil–RESIGN! CIM and Cleveland Orchestra need to make a public apology for these things–let it be over!
All of the members of the cleveland orchestra deserve whatever pain and misery and shame they experience in their lives. Not just this Bill guy, but every single one of these hideous people.
All of the members of the cleveland orchestra deserve whatever pain and misery and shame they experience in their lives. Not just this Bill guy, but every single one of these hideous people.
This thread is an excellent example of why freedom of speech is a terrible idea.
This thread is an excellent example of why freedom of speech is a terrible idea.
I aggree turn off the comments!!!
I aggree turn off the comments!!!
Free Speech, BABY!!!!
Free Speech, BABY!!!!
It is sad to say that the charges against Bill are not entirely… well, complete! What is even worse is that the powers that be at CIM have repeatedly and persistently shown that if one of their own has done something despicable, they will do any and everything they can to hide it and then only when absolutely forced to do so will they take action! Of course we know that molestation and sexual abuse occur in many places, but it is something out of a bad Lifetime movie at CIM! If you do your research you will find that Bill is not the first fellow at CIM that has been accused of inappropriate sexual conduct with a student or fellow staff member in recent years. Only when a minor became involved did anything happen the last time. Only when it is sacrifice or be sacrificed do they take care of business. For any female student at CIM that finds themselves being treated inappropriately by a male staff member at CIM, I suggest you go to the newspapers rather than your Faculty, it is the only way you will see any action. Unless of course you just want to get paid off…that seems to be how they prefer to handle things.
It is sad to say that the charges against Bill are not entirely… well, complete! What is even worse is that the powers that be at CIM have repeatedly and persistently shown that if one of their own has done something despicable, they will do any and everything they can to hide it and then only when absolutely forced to do so will they take action! Of course we know that molestation and sexual abuse occur in many places, but it is something out of a bad Lifetime movie at CIM! If you do your research you will find that Bill is not the first fellow at CIM that has been accused of inappropriate sexual conduct with a student or fellow staff member in recent years. Only when a minor became involved did anything happen the last time. Only when it is sacrifice or be sacrificed do they take care of business. For any female student at CIM that finds themselves being treated inappropriately by a male staff member at CIM, I suggest you go to the newspapers rather than your Faculty, it is the only way you will see any action. Unless of course you just want to get paid off…that seems to be how they prefer to handle things.
All these disturbing and mean comments from musicians of The Cleveland Orchestra, CIM students and supporters of Mr.Preucils could be put to rest. But only when these people are ready to look honestly at the actions put forward, rather than find scapegoats to avoid the matter and blame, blame, blame blindly. It will be hard to absorb, but Mr.Preucil is obviously at fault here, noone else. (This information had to come out one way or the other it seems ) . Once that it is faced, whatever anger can be delt with and directed to the right source. Yes, Mr. Preucil’s actions have affected the reputation of the orchestra , the CIM. his family and destroyed his credibility. But in fact, his actions are all relative to what it has done to each one of you who are affiliated to him in one way or the other. Deal with that honestly and all of you will be able to move on. Only at that point will this blog become something other, even if some reasonable people writing in have tried to raise the level of discussion, than a punching ball.
All these disturbing and mean comments from musicians of The Cleveland Orchestra, CIM students and supporters of Mr.Preucils could be put to rest. But only when these people are ready to look honestly at the actions put forward, rather than find scapegoats to avoid the matter and blame, blame, blame blindly. It will be hard to absorb, but Mr.Preucil is obviously at fault here, noone else. (This information had to come out one way or the other it seems ) . Once that it is faced, whatever anger can be delt with and directed to the right source. Yes, Mr. Preucil’s actions have affected the reputation of the orchestra , the CIM. his family and destroyed his credibility. But in fact, his actions are all relative to what it has done to each one of you who are affiliated to him in one way or the other. Deal with that honestly and all of you will be able to move on. Only at that point will this blog become something other, even if some reasonable people writing in have tried to raise the level of discussion, than a punching ball.
To David Cerone and the Trustees of CIM:
You have a very serious situation that affects many, and the reputation of one of the finest music schools in the country. It is time you stepped up to the plate and did the right thing. A few suggestions…1. Hire an outside 3rd party to investigate these charges and PROTECT everyone’s identity, otherwise a class action suit may well be in your future. 2. It is long past time for a required sexual harassment in the workplace seminar for the faculty. Mr. Preucil is not alone in this charge and you know it. 3. Put in large glass windows on every private studio door. You need to insure your students safety, and the reputation of the institution.
To the Editor’s of Scene Magazine:
Please publish the names, gender, and e-mail addresses of Mr. Cerone and the Trustees of CIM.
CIM Faculty member
To David Cerone and the Trustees of CIM:
You have a very serious situation that affects many, and the reputation of one of the finest music schools in the country. It is time you stepped up to the plate and did the right thing. A few suggestions…1. Hire an outside 3rd party to investigate these charges and PROTECT everyone’s identity, otherwise a class action suit may well be in your future. 2. It is long past time for a required sexual harassment in the workplace seminar for the faculty. Mr. Preucil is not alone in this charge and you know it. 3. Put in large glass windows on every private studio door. You need to insure your students safety, and the reputation of the institution.
To the Editor’s of Scene Magazine:
Please publish the names, gender, and e-mail addresses of Mr. Cerone and the Trustees of CIM.
CIM Faculty member
Re: Cleveland Orchestras unfair hiring practices
The ” ‘ ol boys” system of hiring in Cleveland is legendary,the music world over, and pre-dates Mr. Preucil by MANY years. That this is still allowed to exist in this day and age is what is so astonishing and disturbing. Perhaps this bomb going off is just what is needed to change this antiquated and unjust system. Let us hope.
A musician, ticket holder, and music lover who can no longer stomach going to Severance Hall.
Re: Cleveland Orchestras unfair hiring practices
The ” ‘ ol boys” system of hiring in Cleveland is legendary,the music world over, and pre-dates Mr. Preucil by MANY years. That this is still allowed to exist in this day and age is what is so astonishing and disturbing. Perhaps this bomb going off is just what is needed to change this antiquated and unjust system. Let us hope.
A musician, ticket holder, and music lover who can no longer stomach going to Severance Hall.
Could it be, Reader, that you are upset that either The Cleveland Orchestra did not invite you to audition for its two recent flute openings or that you were invited but did not win either audition?
Could it be, Reader, that you are upset that either The Cleveland Orchestra did not invite you to audition for its two recent flute openings or that you were invited but did not win either audition?
To my eyes and ears, the two weakest players in either violin section of The Cleveland Orchestra were hired in the 1970s and 1980s, before Mr. Preucil arrived. And as far as I know, even these two players are considered conscientious orchestra players.
While The Cleveland Orchestra may have a few minor weaknesses (like any orchestra does), the quality of its first violin section (which Mr. Preucil leads) is very high.
Many of the violinists hired since Mr. Preucil arrived came from outside his sphere of influence.
To my eyes and ears, the two weakest players in either violin section of The Cleveland Orchestra were hired in the 1970s and 1980s, before Mr. Preucil arrived. And as far as I know, even these two players are considered conscientious orchestra players.
While The Cleveland Orchestra may have a few minor weaknesses (like any orchestra does), the quality of its first violin section (which Mr. Preucil leads) is very high.
Many of the violinists hired since Mr. Preucil arrived came from outside his sphere of influence.
Reader, this (obviously) an automated comments section.
As for the flute auditions, a cute young girl with connections won and now they get to look at her every day! Good for them. No surprises there.
Preucil, you screwed up. You’re an awesome fiddle player…but now it’s time to go. Hopefully the new guy will restore the orchestra to its former level.
Keep the comments on, its entertaining. And if you think these people are pissed off, imagine what the musicians in south florida are saying…you know, the ones with the “hack jobs” you displaced?
Reader, this (obviously) an automated comments section.
As for the flute auditions, a cute young girl with connections won and now they get to look at her every day! Good for them. No surprises there.
Preucil, you screwed up. You’re an awesome fiddle player…but now it’s time to go. Hopefully the new guy will restore the orchestra to its former level.
Keep the comments on, its entertaining. And if you think these people are pissed off, imagine what the musicians in south florida are saying…you know, the ones with the “hack jobs” you displaced?
Virtually all major orchestras hire more players who are still in school or who have graduated within the past few years than they do players with many years of significant orchestral experience. Musicians often reach their technical peaks during their training, when they have the most time to focus on improving their own playing and have fewer demands on their time and energy.
Virtually all major orchestras hire more players who are still in school or who have graduated within the past few years than they do players with many years of significant orchestral experience. Musicians often reach their technical peaks during their training, when they have the most time to focus on improving their own playing and have fewer demands on their time and energy.
I wonder if the 4th or 5th brain cell could have helped you be “morethan” instead of “morethen”
I wonder if the 4th or 5th brain cell could have helped you be “morethan” instead of “morethen”
The Cleveland Orchestra has two new female flutists. I have seen and heard only one of them, Marisela Sager, who is the assistant principal. Is she lovely? Yes. And before coming to Cleveland, she was assistant principal in The Baltimore Symphony. She’s an awesome player.
The Cleveland Orchestra has two new female flutists. I have seen and heard only one of them, Marisela Sager, who is the assistant principal. Is she lovely? Yes. And before coming to Cleveland, she was assistant principal in The Baltimore Symphony. She’s an awesome player.
Hmmmmmmm….check out comment #21.
Hmmmmmmm….check out comment #21.
The most disturbing aspect of all of this by far is the treatment of a trusted faculty member of his female students. As a parent and also a fellow CIM faculty member I am appalled at the way CIM has handled this and also at the fact the Mr. Preucil is still allowed to stay in his position here. We as faculty members take on kind of a surrogate parenthood and are trusted to look after the students, not prey on them. Shame on all who allowed this to happen. It seems we are in a similar position to the Catholic Church and we should indeed have some housecleaning.
The most disturbing aspect of all of this by far is the treatment of a trusted faculty member of his female students. As a parent and also a fellow CIM faculty member I am appalled at the way CIM has handled this and also at the fact the Mr. Preucil is still allowed to stay in his position here. We as faculty members take on kind of a surrogate parenthood and are trusted to look after the students, not prey on them. Shame on all who allowed this to happen. It seems we are in a similar position to the Catholic Church and we should indeed have some housecleaning.
I auditioned for CIM this year but after hearing these sexual harrasment accusations I have certainly changed my view towards the school. I have always thought highly of David Cerone and still do but this does affect my opinion.
I auditioned for CIM this year but after hearing these sexual harrasment accusations I have certainly changed my view towards the school. I have always thought highly of David Cerone and still do but this does affect my opinion.
Reader; Why would you want to have the names published of the trustees. Most, I am sure, had no clue what was going on and have given $$$$ to this institution and helped keep it alive. You would just drive the people away! This is not a good business practice. They’re in enough hot water as it is.
Preucil will be out of there. Cerone’s reputation damaged forever. They will have new sexual harassment policies and CO’s audition process will be revamped. There are the solutions. I do think, though, that it is only fair to hear Mr. Preucil’s side of the story. And, I AM SURE that students and teachers will continue to have affairs and relationships.
Reader; Why would you want to have the names published of the trustees. Most, I am sure, had no clue what was going on and have given $$$$ to this institution and helped keep it alive. You would just drive the people away! This is not a good business practice. They’re in enough hot water as it is.
Preucil will be out of there. Cerone’s reputation damaged forever. They will have new sexual harassment policies and CO’s audition process will be revamped. There are the solutions. I do think, though, that it is only fair to hear Mr. Preucil’s side of the story. And, I AM SURE that students and teachers will continue to have affairs and relationships.
I wonder: Do all of the folks who think Mr. Preucil should be removed from his positions believe that Bill Clinton should have been impeached and removed from the presidency because of his affair with Monica Lewinsky? Folks in the administration lied for Mr. Clinton and covered up the affair with the intern, a position that is akin to a student. Friends of Mr. Clinton attempted to buy Ms. Lewinsky’s silence by finding her a good job. Mr. Clinton himself was less then honest about the affair when questioned under oath. Personally, I don’t think what Clinton did was an impeachable offense, and I am not sure that what Mr. Preucil is alleged to have done is reason for his dismissal, either.
I wonder: Do all of the folks who think Mr. Preucil should be removed from his positions believe that Bill Clinton should have been impeached and removed from the presidency because of his affair with Monica Lewinsky? Folks in the administration lied for Mr. Clinton and covered up the affair with the intern, a position that is akin to a student. Friends of Mr. Clinton attempted to buy Ms. Lewinsky’s silence by finding her a good job. Mr. Clinton himself was less then honest about the affair when questioned under oath. Personally, I don’t think what Clinton did was an impeachable offense, and I am not sure that what Mr. Preucil is alleged to have done is reason for his dismissal, either.
I believe someone ordered the names of CIM’s Board of trustees?
President
David Cerone
Officers of the Board of Trustees
Chairman
A. Malachi Mixon, III
First Vice Chairman
William H. Steinbrink
Vice Chairmen
Charles S. Marston
Patrick S. Mullin/Treasurer
Joseph H. Thomas
Secretary
Barbara Bolton Gratry
Trustees
A. Chace Anderson
Mrs. James J. Balaguer
Carl E. Baldassarre
Charles A. Bittenbender
Terry Bork
Judy D. Bourne
Peter J. Brodhead
Brent M. Buckley
Ann C. Calkins
Timothy J. Callahan
Alvin B. Coppolo
Mrs. Robert R. Cull
George F. Dalton III
Mathew F. De Coningh
Mark Floyd
Mrs. Carl D. Glickman
Jeffrey P. Gotschall
Crawford T. Harvie
Eleanor Hayes
John A. Hellman
Jerry Hoegner
Carl M. Jenks
Frank E. Joseph, Jr.
Camille LaBarre
James M. Malz
Richard A. Manuel
Alexander McAfee
Lolita M. McDavid, MD
A. Grace Lee Mims
Mrs. Brian Murphy
Katherine T. O’Neill
Gary Oatey
Mrs. John G. Pegg
Richard W. Pogue
Stanley M. Proctor
Barbara S. Robinson
Susan A. Rothmann, PhD
Elliott L. Schlang
Donna M. Sciarappa
Holly Selvaggi
Karen F. Shanahan
John F. Shelley
David L. Simon
Lawrence J. Simpson, PhD
James A. Smith
Marvin Solganik
Harold O. Stewart
Karin Stone
Cristopher J. Swift
Paul J. Sykes
Joy Weinberger
Sonali B. Wilson
Rose Wong
I believe someone ordered the names of CIM’s Board of trustees?
President
David Cerone
Officers of the Board of Trustees
Chairman
A. Malachi Mixon, III
First Vice Chairman
William H. Steinbrink
Vice Chairmen
Charles S. Marston
Patrick S. Mullin/Treasurer
Joseph H. Thomas
Secretary
Barbara Bolton Gratry
Trustees
A. Chace Anderson
Mrs. James J. Balaguer
Carl E. Baldassarre
Charles A. Bittenbender
Terry Bork
Judy D. Bourne
Peter J. Brodhead
Brent M. Buckley
Ann C. Calkins
Timothy J. Callahan
Alvin B. Coppolo
Mrs. Robert R. Cull
George F. Dalton III
Mathew F. De Coningh
Mark Floyd
Mrs. Carl D. Glickman
Jeffrey P. Gotschall
Crawford T. Harvie
Eleanor Hayes
John A. Hellman
Jerry Hoegner
Carl M. Jenks
Frank E. Joseph, Jr.
Camille LaBarre
James M. Malz
Richard A. Manuel
Alexander McAfee
Lolita M. McDavid, MD
A. Grace Lee Mims
Mrs. Brian Murphy
Katherine T. O’Neill
Gary Oatey
Mrs. John G. Pegg
Richard W. Pogue
Stanley M. Proctor
Barbara S. Robinson
Susan A. Rothmann, PhD
Elliott L. Schlang
Donna M. Sciarappa
Holly Selvaggi
Karen F. Shanahan
John F. Shelley
David L. Simon
Lawrence J. Simpson, PhD
James A. Smith
Marvin Solganik
Harold O. Stewart
Karin Stone
Cristopher J. Swift
Paul J. Sykes
Joy Weinberger
Sonali B. Wilson
Rose Wong
WOW…I am so glad I read this. I know what I am going to be when I grow up. So how do I get on this CIM “bandwagon”? Do I need to audition? I am not able to play anything but do know what a violin looks like and have been told that I am hot.
WOW…I am so glad I read this. I know what I am going to be when I grow up. So how do I get on this CIM “bandwagon”? Do I need to audition? I am not able to play anything but do know what a violin looks like and have been told that I am hot.
How many people are really reading this article or the comments. Does anyone really care about this third rate paper? no. Bill is awesome and no one cares about what some girl said. After everybody forgets about these stupid rumors all anyone will care about is how great the Cleveland Orchestra is and what a fine intitution CIM is.
How many people are really reading this article or the comments. Does anyone really care about this third rate paper? no. Bill is awesome and no one cares about what some girl said. After everybody forgets about these stupid rumors all anyone will care about is how great the Cleveland Orchestra is and what a fine intitution CIM is.
Surely Bill Clinton didn’t have 18 year old teenage girls go to him every day
Surely Bill Clinton didn’t have 18 year old teenage girls go to him every day
Bob…Wow..You are in serious denial…it’s attitudes like that that keep George Bush in office..get a clue…
Bob…Wow..You are in serious denial…it’s attitudes like that that keep George Bush in office..get a clue…
ARE YOU PEOPLE CRAZZZYY???
all these comments are beyond belief! I love the Cleveland Orchestra but I’m sorry, the orchestra does not sound the same when Mr. Pruecil isn’t there!!! Time for him to leave? RIDICULOUS.
And those people who didn’t come to cim just because of Mr. pruecil incident–you might have just made the stupidest mistake in your life. good luck with you in this music world. If you cared for every single scandal in this biz, I wonder where your career could be headed…perhaps NOWHERE.
And I completely agree with Charles Bernard’s comment:
Ridiculous one sided article. Not a coincidence that so many quotes come from 2 of the most appalling, self centered, bitter musicians from the Cleveland Orchestra.
ARE YOU PEOPLE CRAZZZYY???
all these comments are beyond belief! I love the Cleveland Orchestra but I’m sorry, the orchestra does not sound the same when Mr. Pruecil isn’t there!!! Time for him to leave? RIDICULOUS.
And those people who didn’t come to cim just because of Mr. pruecil incident–you might have just made the stupidest mistake in your life. good luck with you in this music world. If you cared for every single scandal in this biz, I wonder where your career could be headed…perhaps NOWHERE.
And I completely agree with Charles Bernard’s comment:
Ridiculous one sided article. Not a coincidence that so many quotes come from 2 of the most appalling, self centered, bitter musicians from the Cleveland Orchestra.
The same thing happened in the Vienna conservetory a couple of years back to Shivo (concertmaster) and he was removed and all his national honor places were stripped, instead of bashing us you should wonder why a sexual offender is still teaching in a school where young girls attend. CIM is a great school and has a great faculty, that is why I think they should have dealt with this situation in a much better way. We expect alot more from a top notch school like CIM.
The same thing happened in the Vienna conservetory a couple of years back to Shivo (concertmaster) and he was removed and all his national honor places were stripped, instead of bashing us you should wonder why a sexual offender is still teaching in a school where young girls attend. CIM is a great school and has a great faculty, that is why I think they should have dealt with this situation in a much better way. We expect alot more from a top notch school like CIM.
And just to make it clear I think it’s rather unjust to blame this on David Cerone. He is a wonderful teacher and person.
And just to make it clear I think it’s rather unjust to blame this on David Cerone. He is a wonderful teacher and person.
Where would your life be headed towards if you never cared about sexual offenders in a public school? Perhaps nowhere?
Where would your life be headed towards if you never cared about sexual offenders in a public school? Perhaps nowhere?
Dear High School Senior,
“Sexual offender”? “Young girls”? To the best of my knowledge, the worst that Mr. Preucil has been accused of has been boorish behavior toward one or more female, adult, conservatory students. That’s certainly not grounds for throwing him out of The Cleveland Orchestra. If every man who ever made a boorish sexually oriented attempt at a young adult female were fired from his job, I suspect the unemployment rate among males would top 50%.
Dear High School Senior,
“Sexual offender”? “Young girls”? To the best of my knowledge, the worst that Mr. Preucil has been accused of has been boorish behavior toward one or more female, adult, conservatory students. That’s certainly not grounds for throwing him out of The Cleveland Orchestra. If every man who ever made a boorish sexually oriented attempt at a young adult female were fired from his job, I suspect the unemployment rate among males would top 50%.
Dear High School Senior,
I have three words of advice for you…..
1)I hope the first thing you learn in college is that in this country, people are innocent until proven guilty.
2) Calling Bill Preucil a sexual predator over an UNPROVEN incident is immature and unintelligent. Only 2 people know what really happened, Mr. Preucil and the woman involved. Unless you were there, I would suggest keeping your opinions to yourself, since they are based on rumor and hearsay. An out of court settlement is not an admission of guilt. I sincerely hope if you are ever the subject of gossip and speculation that people will treat you with more consideration than you are dishing out.
3) It is unfortunate you will no longer be considering CIM….what a shame. I’m a graduate- it’s a fantastic institution.
I hope everyones 15 minutes are up and we can move on….
Dear High School Senior,
I have three words of advice for you…..
1)I hope the first thing you learn in college is that in this country, people are innocent until proven guilty.
2) Calling Bill Preucil a sexual predator over an UNPROVEN incident is immature and unintelligent. Only 2 people know what really happened, Mr. Preucil and the woman involved. Unless you were there, I would suggest keeping your opinions to yourself, since they are based on rumor and hearsay. An out of court settlement is not an admission of guilt. I sincerely hope if you are ever the subject of gossip and speculation that people will treat you with more consideration than you are dishing out.
3) It is unfortunate you will no longer be considering CIM….what a shame. I’m a graduate- it’s a fantastic institution.
I hope everyones 15 minutes are up and we can move on….
Look, taking your wiener out in a lesson is more than “boorish behavior.”
Look, taking your wiener out in a lesson is more than “boorish behavior.”
Dear High school senior,
making rediculous and inacurate assumptions about what MIGHT have happened in the incident that MIGHT have occured is simply put, dumb. Grow up, move on, and find some other more acurate hobby, like math. If you are good enough to get into CIM, and if you work hard enough, you might get a job, afterall CIM has great success in in its students getting orchestral employment. Otherwise you can blame others for your unemployment and knock CIM for being successful.
Dear High school senior,
making rediculous and inacurate assumptions about what MIGHT have happened in the incident that MIGHT have occured is simply put, dumb. Grow up, move on, and find some other more acurate hobby, like math. If you are good enough to get into CIM, and if you work hard enough, you might get a job, afterall CIM has great success in in its students getting orchestral employment. Otherwise you can blame others for your unemployment and knock CIM for being successful.
why do some of you insist on believing the white man and not the young girl and her young classmates who know firsthand what happened? how could it be mere boorish behavior that ruined this young girl’s life? this is 2007, not 1807, women have more rights now than to be pushed away to a different location when a man acts boorish as you say
why do some of you insist on believing the white man and not the young girl and her young classmates who know firsthand what happened? how could it be mere boorish behavior that ruined this young girl’s life? this is 2007, not 1807, women have more rights now than to be pushed away to a different location when a man acts boorish as you say
to “woman” – your an ignorant fool, and this girl’s life is far from ruined.
to “woman” – your an ignorant fool, and this girl’s life is far from ruined.
WHERE DID MARY KAY FERGUSON’S NAME GO FOR HER COMMENTS??? Mary Kay, for you to have that opinion in the first place is despicable and don’t think for one second that taking your name off the comments negates the damage already done. Enough people saw your true colors today and won’t forget it anytime soon.
WHERE DID MARY KAY FERGUSON’S NAME GO FOR HER COMMENTS??? Mary Kay, for you to have that opinion in the first place is despicable and don’t think for one second that taking your name off the comments negates the damage already done. Enough people saw your true colors today and won’t forget it anytime soon.
As one who attended a major conservatory, but, admittedly, never made it as a professional, I feel I can speak with some experience on this topic. Sexism and blatantly sexual behavior is accepted as the norm, and even condoned. Every music student knows stories about famous musicians. These stories add to their allure–they make these musicians seem more attractive, exciting, virile, etc. Indeed, I believe these qualities make the artists more attractive to a large portion of the public as well. We like our celebrities to be fabulous and larger-than-life. Musicians that are not quite as famous then emulate this behavior. I find some of the outrage expressed by faculty, students and musicians to be a bit hypocritical. It’s good that these claims are coming to light now, but–haven’t you all been putting up with, and even enjoying, this kind of stuff for a long time?
As one who attended a major conservatory, but, admittedly, never made it as a professional, I feel I can speak with some experience on this topic. Sexism and blatantly sexual behavior is accepted as the norm, and even condoned. Every music student knows stories about famous musicians. These stories add to their allure–they make these musicians seem more attractive, exciting, virile, etc. Indeed, I believe these qualities make the artists more attractive to a large portion of the public as well. We like our celebrities to be fabulous and larger-than-life. Musicians that are not quite as famous then emulate this behavior. I find some of the outrage expressed by faculty, students and musicians to be a bit hypocritical. It’s good that these claims are coming to light now, but–haven’t you all been putting up with, and even enjoying, this kind of stuff for a long time?
Mark, you are a cad. We no longer accept this kind of behavior. The orchestra and CIM must investigate and decide. We can see by the nature of these comments that the truth is a) the man is a self-absorbed power hungry sex fiend.
Given the number of people in the know – those who have direct expeirence with this predator…
ok, your turn to try and defend. good luck. i don’t see a viable tendril.
“Sexual offender”? “Young girls”? To the best of my knowledge, the worst that Mr. Preucil has been accused of has been boorish behavior toward one or more female, adult, conservatory students. That’s certainly not grounds for throwing him out of The Cleveland Orchestra. If every man who ever made a boorish sexually oriented attempt at a young adult female were fired from his job, I suspect the unemployment rate among males would top 50%.
Mark, you are a cad. We no longer accept this kind of behavior. The orchestra and CIM must investigate and decide. We can see by the nature of these comments that the truth is a) the man is a self-absorbed power hungry sex fiend.
Given the number of people in the know – those who have direct expeirence with this predator…
ok, your turn to try and defend. good luck. i don’t see a viable tendril.
“Sexual offender”? “Young girls”? To the best of my knowledge, the worst that Mr. Preucil has been accused of has been boorish behavior toward one or more female, adult, conservatory students. That’s certainly not grounds for throwing him out of The Cleveland Orchestra. If every man who ever made a boorish sexually oriented attempt at a young adult female were fired from his job, I suspect the unemployment rate among males would top 50%.
(1) Majeske, the good Christian concertmaster, installed his son in the violin section.
(2) Couldn’t the Scene’s copy editors come up with a more imaginative headline than “Sour Notes?” Every article ever written in any paper about any problems in any orchestra uses that rotten old cliche. No musician I know EVER uses it, even to describe botched playing.
Jonnie
(1) Majeske, the good Christian concertmaster, installed his son in the violin section.
(2) Couldn’t the Scene’s copy editors come up with a more imaginative headline than “Sour Notes?” Every article ever written in any paper about any problems in any orchestra uses that rotten old cliche. No musician I know EVER uses it, even to describe botched playing.
Jonnie
Hey, Be Real. So you think I’m a cad? The folks with whom I volunteer at the battered women’s shelter would be surprised to hear me called that.
Anyway, I guess you believe that if you can’t win an argument with somebody on the merits, just insult him and call him names.
Hey, Be Real. So you think I’m a cad? The folks with whom I volunteer at the battered women’s shelter would be surprised to hear me called that.
Anyway, I guess you believe that if you can’t win an argument with somebody on the merits, just insult him and call him names.
To “hi,” clearly you’re the ignorant fool. Learn how to spell. And more importantly, don’t try to justify gross misconduct. It’s jerks like you who downplay the damaging effects, mostly emotional, that scars victims for the rest of their lives. You’ve obviously never experienced such harassment nor do you seem to have the capacity to empathize with those who have unfortunately gone through it.
To “hi,” clearly you’re the ignorant fool. Learn how to spell. And more importantly, don’t try to justify gross misconduct. It’s jerks like you who downplay the damaging effects, mostly emotional, that scars victims for the rest of their lives. You’ve obviously never experienced such harassment nor do you seem to have the capacity to empathize with those who have unfortunately gone through it.
Dear Jinjoo Cho,
I love the Cleveland Orchestra dearly and will always be a fan, but next time you are at a live concert, open up those ears and take a good listen. Then compare it to a concert recording before Preucil became concertmaster. If you know music as I’m assuming you do, then you’ll realize the quality (and I really do hate to say this) is not the same. This is partly due to Preucil and management/previous music directors who have allowed him to abuse his influence, and consequently did not hire the best musicians for open positions and to make decisions that were not to the benefit of the entire orchestra, but rather for one man and his cronies.
After all this has been made public, best thing to do in terms of what is best for the orchestra and Preucil is to have him resign and then rebuild the organization to again be the fantastic orchestra it should be.
Dear Jinjoo Cho,
I love the Cleveland Orchestra dearly and will always be a fan, but next time you are at a live concert, open up those ears and take a good listen. Then compare it to a concert recording before Preucil became concertmaster. If you know music as I’m assuming you do, then you’ll realize the quality (and I really do hate to say this) is not the same. This is partly due to Preucil and management/previous music directors who have allowed him to abuse his influence, and consequently did not hire the best musicians for open positions and to make decisions that were not to the benefit of the entire orchestra, but rather for one man and his cronies.
After all this has been made public, best thing to do in terms of what is best for the orchestra and Preucil is to have him resign and then rebuild the organization to again be the fantastic orchestra it should be.
Preucil is a fantastic violinist and a great concertmaster who has helped maintain the excellence of one of the world’s greatest orchestras. Playing in The Cleveland Orchestra has always been a dream of any musician. It is an orchestra with tradition. It is an orchestra which has the audition philosophy which hires musicians who play at it’s high level in it’s style. Orchestra “style” is usually not part of the audition goal of lesser orchestras, which all basically sound the same because of their lack of “style”. Let’s all hope that The Cleveland Orchestra continues its traditions which will maintain its standards. Otherwise we have all lost a great musical experience. That’s what matters.
Preucil is a fantastic violinist and a great concertmaster who has helped maintain the excellence of one of the world’s greatest orchestras. Playing in The Cleveland Orchestra has always been a dream of any musician. It is an orchestra with tradition. It is an orchestra which has the audition philosophy which hires musicians who play at it’s high level in it’s style. Orchestra “style” is usually not part of the audition goal of lesser orchestras, which all basically sound the same because of their lack of “style”. Let’s all hope that The Cleveland Orchestra continues its traditions which will maintain its standards. Otherwise we have all lost a great musical experience. That’s what matters.
There is no denying Mr.Preucil is a great violinist and concertmaster, I never said he should be removed from his CO position, I just think a school as great as CIM should really consider someone who has been accused of sexual harrasment to continue to teach at the school. Like I mentioned a similar incident happened in the Vienna Conservatory and they took action and removed Mr.Shivo from his position
There is no denying Mr.Preucil is a great violinist and concertmaster, I never said he should be removed from his CO position, I just think a school as great as CIM should really consider someone who has been accused of sexual harrasment to continue to teach at the school. Like I mentioned a similar incident happened in the Vienna Conservatory and they took action and removed Mr.Shivo from his position
SCENE I. Before LEONATO’S house.
Enter LEONATO, HERO, and BEATRICE, with a Messenger
LEONATO
I learn in this letter that Don Peter of Arragon
comes this night to Messina.
Messenger
He is very near by this: he was not three leagues off
when I left him.
LEONATO
How many gentlemen have you lost in this action?
Messenger
But few of any sort, and none of name.
LEONATO
A victory is twice itself when the achiever brings
home full numbers. I find here that Don Peter hath
bestowed much honour on a young Florentine called Claudio.
SCENE I. Before LEONATO’S house.
Enter LEONATO, HERO, and BEATRICE, with a Messenger
LEONATO
I learn in this letter that Don Peter of Arragon
comes this night to Messina.
Messenger
He is very near by this: he was not three leagues off
when I left him.
LEONATO
How many gentlemen have you lost in this action?
Messenger
But few of any sort, and none of name.
LEONATO
A victory is twice itself when the achiever brings
home full numbers. I find here that Don Peter hath
bestowed much honour on a young Florentine called Claudio.
The Song
BALTHASAR
Sigh no more, ladies, sigh no more,
Men were deceivers ever,
One foot in sea and one on shore,
To one thing constant never:
Then sigh not so, but let them go,
And be you blithe and bonny,
Converting all your sounds of woe
Into Hey nonny, nonny.
Sing no more ditties, sing no moe,
Of dumps so dull and heavy;
The fraud of men was ever so,
Since summer first was leafy:
Then sigh not so, & c.
DON PEDRO
By my troth, a good song.
BALTHASAR
And an ill singer, my lord.
The Song
BALTHASAR
Sigh no more, ladies, sigh no more,
Men were deceivers ever,
One foot in sea and one on shore,
To one thing constant never:
Then sigh not so, but let them go,
And be you blithe and bonny,
Converting all your sounds of woe
Into Hey nonny, nonny.
Sing no more ditties, sing no moe,
Of dumps so dull and heavy;
The fraud of men was ever so,
Since summer first was leafy:
Then sigh not so, & c.
DON PEDRO
By my troth, a good song.
BALTHASAR
And an ill singer, my lord.
sometimes i feel that cleveland orchestra sounds sound like ocean but i like mountains…is there any way to have cleveland orchestra sound more like mountains less like ocean?
sometimes i feel that cleveland orchestra sounds sound like ocean but i like mountains…is there any way to have cleveland orchestra sound more like mountains less like ocean?
It’s too bad that the girl in question is not allowed to talk, and that the other girls who have been subjected to Mr. Preucil’s sexually inapporpriate conduct are not inclined to talk, since to them the pros (his musicianship, amazing teaching, and influence) outweigh the cons (his blatant, aggressive, explicit, non-apologetic and repeated sexual misconduct). To me, the story is the sex. Not the nepotism (which to me is neither shocking nor unforgivable – of COURSE people will take advantage of any situation that presents an opportunity). The story is the sex. For some time, I have been perplexed as to why the other girls have not spoken up. The only reponse I have ever been given is “But it’s Mr. Preucil. He’s amazing. I would not be the violinist I am today without him.”
So apparently the guy’s got it going on. The ability to inspire total hero-worship among young, impressionable students, an academic faculty that values his image over the well-being of their student body (CIM), a main office that is willing to turn a blind eye to whatever may/may not be going on in auditions (CO), and the skills to back up his lauded position in the musical community (ignoring the snobs out there who don’t care for his Schubert, Strauss, etc – let’s not pretend he’s an unworthy musician).
The Scene article was lame because nobody could/would talk about the sex.
It’s too bad that the girl in question is not allowed to talk, and that the other girls who have been subjected to Mr. Preucil’s sexually inapporpriate conduct are not inclined to talk, since to them the pros (his musicianship, amazing teaching, and influence) outweigh the cons (his blatant, aggressive, explicit, non-apologetic and repeated sexual misconduct). To me, the story is the sex. Not the nepotism (which to me is neither shocking nor unforgivable – of COURSE people will take advantage of any situation that presents an opportunity). The story is the sex. For some time, I have been perplexed as to why the other girls have not spoken up. The only reponse I have ever been given is “But it’s Mr. Preucil. He’s amazing. I would not be the violinist I am today without him.”
So apparently the guy’s got it going on. The ability to inspire total hero-worship among young, impressionable students, an academic faculty that values his image over the well-being of their student body (CIM), a main office that is willing to turn a blind eye to whatever may/may not be going on in auditions (CO), and the skills to back up his lauded position in the musical community (ignoring the snobs out there who don’t care for his Schubert, Strauss, etc – let’s not pretend he’s an unworthy musician).
The Scene article was lame because nobody could/would talk about the sex.
Any company or institution of higher learning (or any kind for that matter) that has a sexual harassment policy in place has created such a policy to protect itself from legal action, not to protect any person or persons. It is entirely up to the institution to execute its own policy in its own way. If CIM has chosen to keep any given faculty member on staff after an alleged or an actual incident they are entitled to do so. Of course such a choice leaves the institution unprotected in the future if more substantiated complaints are recorded. A legal feeding frenzy by unhappy current and former students could may well ensue in the wake of these recent developments. And not only by students of Mr. Preucil. Apparently CIM determined that the benefits of continuing to employ Mr. Preucil (and perhaps other problematic faculty members as well) outweigh the liabilities. Whether that was a mistake or not is a matter of opinion.
CIM, I am told, has quite a good reputation nationally. It is a point of civic pride for the Cleveland community as is the Cleveland Orchestra, the Cleveland Museum of Art, and numerous other arts organizations that exist here. I believe that those of us who love the arts and attend concerts, plays, art exhibitions and make contributions are not very concerned with how so and so got their job or whether such and such a concertmaster makes more money than other concertmasters. Frankly as a music lover I am much more concerned that when I attend a concert I enjoy the performance.
Any company or institution of higher learning (or any kind for that matter) that has a sexual harassment policy in place has created such a policy to protect itself from legal action, not to protect any person or persons. It is entirely up to the institution to execute its own policy in its own way. If CIM has chosen to keep any given faculty member on staff after an alleged or an actual incident they are entitled to do so. Of course such a choice leaves the institution unprotected in the future if more substantiated complaints are recorded. A legal feeding frenzy by unhappy current and former students could may well ensue in the wake of these recent developments. And not only by students of Mr. Preucil. Apparently CIM determined that the benefits of continuing to employ Mr. Preucil (and perhaps other problematic faculty members as well) outweigh the liabilities. Whether that was a mistake or not is a matter of opinion.
CIM, I am told, has quite a good reputation nationally. It is a point of civic pride for the Cleveland community as is the Cleveland Orchestra, the Cleveland Museum of Art, and numerous other arts organizations that exist here. I believe that those of us who love the arts and attend concerts, plays, art exhibitions and make contributions are not very concerned with how so and so got their job or whether such and such a concertmaster makes more money than other concertmasters. Frankly as a music lover I am much more concerned that when I attend a concert I enjoy the performance.
Sexual harrassment policies are there to protect institutions from legal action but ultimately to protect people: the creators of such policies make decisions as human beings and also value the kind of impact institutional policies have on constituents and the community. This is obvious in a democratic society like ours. Institutions do have the right to make their own policies and enforce them their own way. If so, these decisions should be made transparent to the public, who can choose to support or not support a variety of institutions based on their own values or interests (i.e. being a pure music lover vs. being a music lover concerned about an institution’s other stuff besides music). The reason why CIM tries to silent sexual harrassment accusations is because sexual harrassment isn’t socially acceptable. CIM is arguably entitled to keep certain faculty members on staff, but the public has the right to know its policies or lack of policies to decide whether or not it wants to support such an institution, which claims to be a “point of civic pride for the Cleveland community.”
Sexual harrassment policies are there to protect institutions from legal action but ultimately to protect people: the creators of such policies make decisions as human beings and also value the kind of impact institutional policies have on constituents and the community. This is obvious in a democratic society like ours. Institutions do have the right to make their own policies and enforce them their own way. If so, these decisions should be made transparent to the public, who can choose to support or not support a variety of institutions based on their own values or interests (i.e. being a pure music lover vs. being a music lover concerned about an institution’s other stuff besides music). The reason why CIM tries to silent sexual harrassment accusations is because sexual harrassment isn’t socially acceptable. CIM is arguably entitled to keep certain faculty members on staff, but the public has the right to know its policies or lack of policies to decide whether or not it wants to support such an institution, which claims to be a “point of civic pride for the Cleveland community.”
The owner of a salon where Britney Spears shaved off all of her hair is hoping to sell the clippings for $1m (£512,000).
The owner of a salon where Britney Spears shaved off all of her hair is hoping to sell the clippings for $1m (£512,000).
your mindless nonsense can’t cover up the ugliness of the Cleveland Orchestra/CIM scandal and certainly won’t make it go away
your mindless nonsense can’t cover up the ugliness of the Cleveland Orchestra/CIM scandal and certainly won’t make it go away
Is this what passes for journalism in Cleveland? Is Ms. Meiser an eighth grader writing for her school newspaper?
I do not live in Cleveland or know anyone in the Cleveland Orchestra. I also have no doubt that Preucil probably crossed the line with a student and promotes his friends in the orchestra. However, this titilating hatchet job is tabloid trash. If I was Preucil I would be headed to my lawyer right now to draft a defamation or character suit.
“Their eyes and bodies express sorrow, desire and joy as their bows move urgently across the strings of their instruments.” With writing like that I hope Ms. Meiser is not sitting by the phone waiting for the New York Times to call.
Is this what passes for journalism in Cleveland? Is Ms. Meiser an eighth grader writing for her school newspaper?
I do not live in Cleveland or know anyone in the Cleveland Orchestra. I also have no doubt that Preucil probably crossed the line with a student and promotes his friends in the orchestra. However, this titilating hatchet job is tabloid trash. If I was Preucil I would be headed to my lawyer right now to draft a defamation or character suit.
“Their eyes and bodies express sorrow, desire and joy as their bows move urgently across the strings of their instruments.” With writing like that I hope Ms. Meiser is not sitting by the phone waiting for the New York Times to call.
HE’S PLAYING GOLF YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!
HE’S PLAYING GOLF YOU IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!
Wow, you’d think orchestra members would be practicing instead of posting nonsense to some second rate paper’s website. Maybe that is a partial explanation of the decline of their playing…
Wow, you’d think orchestra members would be practicing instead of posting nonsense to some second rate paper’s website. Maybe that is a partial explanation of the decline of their playing…
HYPOCRITE!!
“Wow, you’d think orchestra members would be practicing instead of posting nonsense to some second rate paper’s website. Maybe that is a partial explanation of the decline of their playing…
Comment by ok stop it already — February 20, 2007 @ 04:06PM”
HYPOCRITE!!
“Wow, you’d think orchestra members would be practicing instead of posting nonsense to some second rate paper’s website. Maybe that is a partial explanation of the decline of their playing…
Comment by ok stop it already — February 20, 2007 @ 04:06PM”
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics…
Even if you win, you’re still retarded.
Arguing on the internet is like running in the special olympics…
Even if you win, you’re still retarded.
Zipadee doo dah
Zipadee doo dah
And if the kid was your daughter, LifeLongLoveroftheArts and Tim J., I imagine you’d feel a bit differently.
And if the kid was your daughter, LifeLongLoveroftheArts and Tim J., I imagine you’d feel a bit differently.
The good news is that the level of individual ability and virtuosity is arguably better than at any time in the orchestra’s history. This means that collectively the orchestra is capable of amazing performances. This will insure that the Cleveland Orchestra will weather this storm and remain the truly world-class organization that it has always been.
The good news is that the level of individual ability and virtuosity is arguably better than at any time in the orchestra’s history. This means that collectively the orchestra is capable of amazing performances. This will insure that the Cleveland Orchestra will weather this storm and remain the truly world-class organization that it has always been.
This article is obscene. Clearly Ms.Meiser is not a musician and looking at the issue as a regular layperson. The accusations against Bill Preucil are ridiclous and I feel as though scene felt as though they needed to uncover something juicy happening in one of the worlds finest orchestras. Sorry you didnt find that Ms. Meiser.
As a former student of CIM I have seen many friends, from cleveland and elsewhere, audition for the Cleveland Orchestra. Anybody even considered to audition is at the top of their game. Not having a screened audition does not change the way people play. If you are good you are good.
In response to the “cleveland sound” – When you have studied with a teacher long enough, aspects of their playing are very evident in the student. When a student auditions for a major orchestra they have been coached very carefully by their teachers. Should their teachers be members of the cleveland orchestra it makes sense that the excerpts would sound similar to what the orchestra would do.
Also take into consideration that Scene is not a reputable paper in Cleveland. I dont know of anybody who considers it a publication with journalistic integrety. And it appears as though Ms. Meiser has not gotten any further then the high school mothly in her journalism education.
Cheers,
Musician
This article is obscene. Clearly Ms.Meiser is not a musician and looking at the issue as a regular layperson. The accusations against Bill Preucil are ridiclous and I feel as though scene felt as though they needed to uncover something juicy happening in one of the worlds finest orchestras. Sorry you didnt find that Ms. Meiser.
As a former student of CIM I have seen many friends, from cleveland and elsewhere, audition for the Cleveland Orchestra. Anybody even considered to audition is at the top of their game. Not having a screened audition does not change the way people play. If you are good you are good.
In response to the “cleveland sound” – When you have studied with a teacher long enough, aspects of their playing are very evident in the student. When a student auditions for a major orchestra they have been coached very carefully by their teachers. Should their teachers be members of the cleveland orchestra it makes sense that the excerpts would sound similar to what the orchestra would do.
Also take into consideration that Scene is not a reputable paper in Cleveland. I dont know of anybody who considers it a publication with journalistic integrety. And it appears as though Ms. Meiser has not gotten any further then the high school mothly in her journalism education.
Cheers,
Musician
I’ll never go to another cleveland orchestra concert again. My daughter and I used to love coming to orchestra concerts and reveling in the artistry. When I moved here from London I resigned myself to the bland sound of this orchestra, thinking “at least they have an orchestra…and they’re OK.” Now they’re just OK but we know why, and I don’t like it.
I’ll never go to another cleveland orchestra concert again. My daughter and I used to love coming to orchestra concerts and reveling in the artistry. When I moved here from London I resigned myself to the bland sound of this orchestra, thinking “at least they have an orchestra…and they’re OK.” Now they’re just OK but we know why, and I don’t like it.
The CO is no doubt a wonderful orchestra. The audition process is unique in America; there wouldn’t be this much commotion if we were in Germany, whose orchestra is well-known for its personalized, traditional auditions. The CO attracts world-class musicians using screened or unscreened auditions, whether Preucil has a large say or not. However, although the CO can pick and choose from among the best musicians to be in it, those musicians who are relatively unknown but extremely talented would be left out (intentionally through private auditions or unintentionally by not holding screened auditions known for fair consideration) and will go elsewhere. Of course, there are very few people who are equal in talent or more talented than CO members. However, the screening process is set up in many orchestras so that precious “gems” do not escape an orchestra’s attention.
Whatever people think of the Scene or Meiser’s writing, her words deserve a careful reading with a critical eye. It does seem like she’s biased against Preucil for some reason, because the entire article sounds bitter. Some rumors she reported might have been from bitter CO members or other biased sources, but at least she attracted scrutiny in areas that demand careful thought.
The CO is no doubt a wonderful orchestra. The audition process is unique in America; there wouldn’t be this much commotion if we were in Germany, whose orchestra is well-known for its personalized, traditional auditions. The CO attracts world-class musicians using screened or unscreened auditions, whether Preucil has a large say or not. However, although the CO can pick and choose from among the best musicians to be in it, those musicians who are relatively unknown but extremely talented would be left out (intentionally through private auditions or unintentionally by not holding screened auditions known for fair consideration) and will go elsewhere. Of course, there are very few people who are equal in talent or more talented than CO members. However, the screening process is set up in many orchestras so that precious “gems” do not escape an orchestra’s attention.
Whatever people think of the Scene or Meiser’s writing, her words deserve a careful reading with a critical eye. It does seem like she’s biased against Preucil for some reason, because the entire article sounds bitter. Some rumors she reported might have been from bitter CO members or other biased sources, but at least she attracted scrutiny in areas that demand careful thought.
Put the screen up for future auditions and institute a rule that no one should be on the audition committee if a relative or close friend is to audition for a position in the orchestra.
Put the screen up for future auditions and institute a rule that no one should be on the audition committee if a relative or close friend is to audition for a position in the orchestra.
While poorly written and researched, there are bits of truth to these accusations. The article fails to point out that some of their sources are in the process of being demoted for incompetence. (Polyakin, DePasquale(unquoted but a sure source given her past relationship with Scene))
While poorly written and researched, there are bits of truth to these accusations. The article fails to point out that some of their sources are in the process of being demoted for incompetence. (Polyakin, DePasquale(unquoted but a sure source given her past relationship with Scene))
great story, keep up the good work. I enjoy reading your stories.can’t wait until wednesday to see if you have a top stories. hope you are doing find keep on writing
great story, keep up the good work. I enjoy reading your stories.can’t wait until wednesday to see if you have a top stories. hope you are doing find keep on writing
Some “smaller” orchestras like San Francisco will disqualify an auditionee if they have had a “lesson” with the principal within the past 6 months.
Some “smaller” orchestras like San Francisco will disqualify an auditionee if they have had a “lesson” with the principal within the past 6 months.
Less than 24 hours after checking into the Promises treatment center in Malibu, California, on Monday. Britney Spears has abruptly exited the facility, a source confirms to E! Online.
It was Spears’ second short-lived rehab attempt in just days. Last week, the troubled pop star briefly entered Eric Clapton’s Crossroads Center in Antigua, but checked out a day later.
Less than 24 hours after checking into the Promises treatment center in Malibu, California, on Monday. Britney Spears has abruptly exited the facility, a source confirms to E! Online.
It was Spears’ second short-lived rehab attempt in just days. Last week, the troubled pop star briefly entered Eric Clapton’s Crossroads Center in Antigua, but checked out a day later.
Yeah..I know for a fact if someone wants a lesson with the principal violist of the CO anytime near an audition..he tells them they can’t take the audition for CO..funny, as his students are taking lessons with him every week..and of course..not only can they audition..but they always win! What kind of crap is that?
Yeah..I know for a fact if someone wants a lesson with the principal violist of the CO anytime near an audition..he tells them they can’t take the audition for CO..funny, as his students are taking lessons with him every week..and of course..not only can they audition..but they always win! What kind of crap is that?
To everyone who criticized Vernon,
Every violist in the section deserves to be there because every single one is a great player and musician. If you can’t understand that, then your a sad sad person and need to get over your jealousy and take your hatred elsewhere. It is not welcome here. If you were talented enough to be admitted into his studio, and work harder than anyone else does, then MAYBE you would be good enough to be considered. END OF STORY! BUH BYE!!
To everyone who criticized Vernon,
Every violist in the section deserves to be there because every single one is a great player and musician. If you can’t understand that, then your a sad sad person and need to get over your jealousy and take your hatred elsewhere. It is not welcome here. If you were talented enough to be admitted into his studio, and work harder than anyone else does, then MAYBE you would be good enough to be considered. END OF STORY! BUH BYE!!
To CO fan..you are a clueless idiot…then they shouldn’t bother announcing auditions to all vioilists everywhere..just send them right from CIM to the orchestra..without the big audition sham..believe it or not..there are alot of gret violists out there who didn’t study with Vernon..alot of them even better..yes..it’s true!
To CO fan..you are a clueless idiot…then they shouldn’t bother announcing auditions to all vioilists everywhere..just send them right from CIM to the orchestra..without the big audition sham..believe it or not..there are alot of gret violists out there who didn’t study with Vernon..alot of them even better..yes..it’s true!
Of the big orchestras I’ve heard, Cleveland is definitely the most BORING!!!! They have a tiny little sound, especially in the strings. Go listen to Chicago or NY or Philly, if you want to hear some realy color and excitement.
CIM is a good school. Less good that it used to be, but still one of the top 10 conservatories in the US.
Cleveland is a dead town. The people who live there live in a bubble. At one time they had one of the best orchestras ever (1960’s). The only thing left of that is the memories. The Cleveland Orchestra doesn’t even pay better than the next group down, and their salary is the lowest of the top 7 orchestras (top 5, SF, and LA). I think things will be getting more difficult for them in the future.
Of the big orchestras I’ve heard, Cleveland is definitely the most BORING!!!! They have a tiny little sound, especially in the strings. Go listen to Chicago or NY or Philly, if you want to hear some realy color and excitement.
CIM is a good school. Less good that it used to be, but still one of the top 10 conservatories in the US.
Cleveland is a dead town. The people who live there live in a bubble. At one time they had one of the best orchestras ever (1960’s). The only thing left of that is the memories. The Cleveland Orchestra doesn’t even pay better than the next group down, and their salary is the lowest of the top 7 orchestras (top 5, SF, and LA). I think things will be getting more difficult for them in the future.
to musician,
In response to your comment, it is true that half of the viola section are ex Vernon students. But what about the other half of the section? They didn’t study with Vernon let alone go to CIM. And might I add that Vernon has a great track record as far as orchestra jobs. He has students in 48 out of 50 states that are employed. What do you think of that?
Also many of the major conservatories were built upon the philosophy that the students of the particular conservatory were trained for the orchestra in that city. For example Shepherd School of Music students were prepared for Houston Symphony jobs. Juilliard/New York Phil, Curtis/Philly Orchestra, etc. However that tradition was lost throughout the years. Now it is rare for an orchestra to have a sound unique to that group. This is why it is hard to tell the difference between Pittsburgh and Detroit, or LA to St. Louis. I applaud CO for keeping true to that tradition and because of it they are a world class orchestra.
to musician,
In response to your comment, it is true that half of the viola section are ex Vernon students. But what about the other half of the section? They didn’t study with Vernon let alone go to CIM. And might I add that Vernon has a great track record as far as orchestra jobs. He has students in 48 out of 50 states that are employed. What do you think of that?
Also many of the major conservatories were built upon the philosophy that the students of the particular conservatory were trained for the orchestra in that city. For example Shepherd School of Music students were prepared for Houston Symphony jobs. Juilliard/New York Phil, Curtis/Philly Orchestra, etc. However that tradition was lost throughout the years. Now it is rare for an orchestra to have a sound unique to that group. This is why it is hard to tell the difference between Pittsburgh and Detroit, or LA to St. Louis. I applaud CO for keeping true to that tradition and because of it they are a world class orchestra.
270 plus commentaries later, and regardless of how one feels about content and quality of the article, it may be time to introduce a George Szell quote that he once statedly privately: “If there is cancer, cut it out!”
270 plus commentaries later, and regardless of how one feels about content and quality of the article, it may be time to introduce a George Szell quote that he once statedly privately: “If there is cancer, cut it out!”
To Josh,
I am really saddened to read that you think that the Cleveland Orchestra sounds boring. You should definitely check out the new Bruckner DVD that they are coming out with. It is something else. I believe that the Cleveland Orchestra is a great orchestra. There sound, precision, ensemble, colors, etc are incredible. The orchestras you mentioned do not have a better string section than Cleveland. It’s different. There is no right or wrong in music. Just taste. If you like there string sound kudos to you. I think that the strings of the Cleveland Orchestra sound magnificent. The reason I think this is because musicians of the Cleveland Orchestra understand that orchestra playing is an art form in its self. It is completely different from solo playing or chamber playing. the orchestras you prefer are great, however the string sections are not unified. Every person in the orchestras you mentioned play differently, which results in a mish mosh of sound, pitch, articulation, etc.
anyways, this is my opinion, and if people wanna trash it go ahead. I understand, unlike some people, that everyone has opinions.
P.S. Money has nothing to do with quality of playing. Musicians are not in it for the money. Musicians are musicians because they enjoy making music.
To Josh,
I am really saddened to read that you think that the Cleveland Orchestra sounds boring. You should definitely check out the new Bruckner DVD that they are coming out with. It is something else. I believe that the Cleveland Orchestra is a great orchestra. There sound, precision, ensemble, colors, etc are incredible. The orchestras you mentioned do not have a better string section than Cleveland. It’s different. There is no right or wrong in music. Just taste. If you like there string sound kudos to you. I think that the strings of the Cleveland Orchestra sound magnificent. The reason I think this is because musicians of the Cleveland Orchestra understand that orchestra playing is an art form in its self. It is completely different from solo playing or chamber playing. the orchestras you prefer are great, however the string sections are not unified. Every person in the orchestras you mentioned play differently, which results in a mish mosh of sound, pitch, articulation, etc.
anyways, this is my opinion, and if people wanna trash it go ahead. I understand, unlike some people, that everyone has opinions.
P.S. Money has nothing to do with quality of playing. Musicians are not in it for the money. Musicians are musicians because they enjoy making music.
Compared to the cost of living in the other Big Five orchestra cities, The Cleveland Orchestra’s pay is at the absolute top. Sure, The Boston, New York, Chicago and Philadelphia orchestras pay more in absolute terms, but it costs a forture to live in or around those cities.
Funny about the Robert Vernon comments: given all the students of his who have won auditions in Cleveland and elsewhere, he must be an excellent teacher. But to my ears, his playing has really deteriorated over the past five years. He always was an aggressive player, but I think he’s now heading toward being an ugly player. And his rhythm isn’t what it once was, either. He kind of jumps the gun sometimes, or at least it sounds that way.
Compared to the cost of living in the other Big Five orchestra cities, The Cleveland Orchestra’s pay is at the absolute top. Sure, The Boston, New York, Chicago and Philadelphia orchestras pay more in absolute terms, but it costs a forture to live in or around those cities.
Funny about the Robert Vernon comments: given all the students of his who have won auditions in Cleveland and elsewhere, he must be an excellent teacher. But to my ears, his playing has really deteriorated over the past five years. He always was an aggressive player, but I think he’s now heading toward being an ugly player. And his rhythm isn’t what it once was, either. He kind of jumps the gun sometimes, or at least it sounds that way.
Vernon’s and Preucil’s student’s are good, but not great. I think Curtis is a much more wonderful school. There is certainly no nepotism going on there and in the Philadelphia Orchestra. CIM and The CO should look to Philly for enlightenment. These troubled waters must be navigated with due diligence.
Vernon’s and Preucil’s student’s are good, but not great. I think Curtis is a much more wonderful school. There is certainly no nepotism going on there and in the Philadelphia Orchestra. CIM and The CO should look to Philly for enlightenment. These troubled waters must be navigated with due diligence.
I think orchestras should revert back to the old days when you would go over to the conductor’s house for dinner and play something for him, instead of all this auditioning bs. Because of our high-minded political correctness, we have lost some of the humanity that comes with making music. People with social skills would have a greater chance of making it, just like in the REAL world. Those are my 2 cents.
I think orchestras should revert back to the old days when you would go over to the conductor’s house for dinner and play something for him, instead of all this auditioning bs. Because of our high-minded political correctness, we have lost some of the humanity that comes with making music. People with social skills would have a greater chance of making it, just like in the REAL world. Those are my 2 cents.
Yes I am one of the only Muslim violinists in America, and I have to say I was discriminated against by the Cleveland Orchestra. They are obviously racist for not wanting me in their orchestra. This is an outrage. Allah shall punish them and Preucil for his fornication crimes.
Yes I am one of the only Muslim violinists in America, and I have to say I was discriminated against by the Cleveland Orchestra. They are obviously racist for not wanting me in their orchestra. This is an outrage. Allah shall punish them and Preucil for his fornication crimes.
To CO fan:
I believe that only 2 violists of the current CO viola section did NOT study with Vernon.
And to musician:
Just going to CIM doesn’t get you into CO…you need to study with the man! Many fellow CIM grads and I have taken auditions around the country but never even bothered to send our resumes to CO because we didn’t study with Vernon. And we were all living in Cleveland at the time of the most recent audition…
To CO fan:
I believe that only 2 violists of the current CO viola section did NOT study with Vernon.
And to musician:
Just going to CIM doesn’t get you into CO…you need to study with the man! Many fellow CIM grads and I have taken auditions around the country but never even bothered to send our resumes to CO because we didn’t study with Vernon. And we were all living in Cleveland at the time of the most recent audition…
Mr. Preucil will get what is coming to him. His incestuous dalliances repulse a majority of the orchestra. A lot of us have had enough. His comments to the winds have not been appreciated and we don’t find his playing to be of the highest calibre. I guess you could say some of us are bitter that he doesn’t “share”. Crappy poker player too.
Mr. Preucil will get what is coming to him. His incestuous dalliances repulse a majority of the orchestra. A lot of us have had enough. His comments to the winds have not been appreciated and we don’t find his playing to be of the highest calibre. I guess you could say some of us are bitter that he doesn’t “share”. Crappy poker player too.
But Carrie Dennis, most observers think Cleveland sounds better than Philadelphia these days!
Assuming you are the prominent violist of your sign-in name, congratulations on your fantastic achievements in Philly, L.A and Berlin!
But Carrie Dennis, most observers think Cleveland sounds better than Philadelphia these days!
Assuming you are the prominent violist of your sign-in name, congratulations on your fantastic achievements in Philly, L.A and Berlin!
And, Carrie Dennis: no nepotism in Philadelphia? Ever heard of the De Pasquale family? People can also make as much of a case for the proliferation of Curtis alums in that orchestra as they can for CIM alums in Cleveland….
CO members should not be sniping at each other in here. It’s really tacky.
I’m pretty sure that George Szell would agree that the cancer which needs to be cut out is Polyakin….
And, Carrie Dennis: no nepotism in Philadelphia? Ever heard of the De Pasquale family? People can also make as much of a case for the proliferation of Curtis alums in that orchestra as they can for CIM alums in Cleveland….
CO members should not be sniping at each other in here. It’s really tacky.
I’m pretty sure that George Szell would agree that the cancer which needs to be cut out is Polyakin….
Hello Amid. You are not the only Muslim violinist in America. I too have been discriminated against by CO. As soon as they saw my face at the audition you could see the look of surprise cross their ugly white faces. They did not want to hear me play. Mr. Preucil said: “We are sorry, we can’t hear you. Next candidate please.” I have talked to a lawyer about taking legal action as my father is wealthy. I spent 6 weeks preparing for this audition and for what? I did not play one note! Allah punishes sinners. May Preucil and his friends die a horrible death. Praise Allah.
Hello Amid. You are not the only Muslim violinist in America. I too have been discriminated against by CO. As soon as they saw my face at the audition you could see the look of surprise cross their ugly white faces. They did not want to hear me play. Mr. Preucil said: “We are sorry, we can’t hear you. Next candidate please.” I have talked to a lawyer about taking legal action as my father is wealthy. I spent 6 weeks preparing for this audition and for what? I did not play one note! Allah punishes sinners. May Preucil and his friends die a horrible death. Praise Allah.
Thank you for the kind words. The De Pasquales are wonderful people and they deserve the jobs they have gotten. I’m sorry but the same cannot be said for the Preucils. As I have said before, the reason there are so many Curtis alums in the Philly Orchestra is because the Curtis Institute is THE best musical institution in America. You people will just have to take my word for it. Sitting in on Philly auditions, I have heard several Preucil and Vernon students, and they are not up to the new international standard. We have said on audition committees before in Philly that we did not want candidates from inferior schools. You can really hear the difference is quality between Curtis and CIM grads.
Thank you for the kind words. The De Pasquales are wonderful people and they deserve the jobs they have gotten. I’m sorry but the same cannot be said for the Preucils. As I have said before, the reason there are so many Curtis alums in the Philly Orchestra is because the Curtis Institute is THE best musical institution in America. You people will just have to take my word for it. Sitting in on Philly auditions, I have heard several Preucil and Vernon students, and they are not up to the new international standard. We have said on audition committees before in Philly that we did not want candidates from inferior schools. You can really hear the difference is quality between Curtis and CIM grads.
People with connections might have a higher chance of making it in the real world, but is that a good thing? Especially when there are more reliable, relatively easy ways to separate musicians’ abilities. In the music field, it seems pretty easy to let talent to be the only factor used to make a decision among candidates, while in other fields, it’s hard to separate talent from PR. For example, in academia, graduate students applying for positions at universities send in CVs that contain their life’s most important work. They might’ve written important papers with other colleagues, but nobody knows exactly what the grad student DID. He might’ve exaggerated his roles on certain projects on his cover letter or outright lie. (That’s partly why there’s a long, stressful pre-tenure period: to judge the tenure candidate’s true abilities. But it would be much easier if people could tell one person’s ability from another’s with a simple test. In the music field, it’s the audition. After auditioning, a musician will still be scrutinized by other orchestra members and the director, but the audition provides a more accurate way of assessing musicianship than a resume does.)
(Bear with me…there’s a part 2)
People with connections might have a higher chance of making it in the real world, but is that a good thing? Especially when there are more reliable, relatively easy ways to separate musicians’ abilities. In the music field, it seems pretty easy to let talent to be the only factor used to make a decision among candidates, while in other fields, it’s hard to separate talent from PR. For example, in academia, graduate students applying for positions at universities send in CVs that contain their life’s most important work. They might’ve written important papers with other colleagues, but nobody knows exactly what the grad student DID. He might’ve exaggerated his roles on certain projects on his cover letter or outright lie. (That’s partly why there’s a long, stressful pre-tenure period: to judge the tenure candidate’s true abilities. But it would be much easier if people could tell one person’s ability from another’s with a simple test. In the music field, it’s the audition. After auditioning, a musician will still be scrutinized by other orchestra members and the director, but the audition provides a more accurate way of assessing musicianship than a resume does.)
(Bear with me…there’s a part 2)
In many music auditions, performers play for 10-15 minutes or so for a committee, and if administered fairly, those 15 minutes can be the most accurate measure of talent available (especially when the ability to play well under pressure is important for musicians). In these auditions, past experience, past teachers, and performance opportunities don’t matter (or maybe they matter but are not as important as the actual audition): for 15 minutes, all auditioners are on the same playing field. If the CO looks for a “Cleveland sound,” why not judge if the performer has it or not in the audition time frame? (Auditioners will probably re-audition in semifinals, finals, etc., giving the committee more time to judge whether he/she has got what it takes. Most likely, there are other musicians with Cleveland Orchestra-type ideas of what music should sound like without actually studying with a CO member.) The best case scenario would be that CIM students end up getting a big fraction of CO positions anyways, even with screened auditions, proving that they really ARE what the CO is about. In traditional closed auditions (as opposed to open, screened auditions), even if the final choice is a great musician, there’s no way of knowing how great compared to others interested in the same position. It just seems strange that a strong dependence on connections is the most effective way for gathering the best musicians, not to mention that this dependence clashes with most people’s intuition about fair play.
In many music auditions, performers play for 10-15 minutes or so for a committee, and if administered fairly, those 15 minutes can be the most accurate measure of talent available (especially when the ability to play well under pressure is important for musicians). In these auditions, past experience, past teachers, and performance opportunities don’t matter (or maybe they matter but are not as important as the actual audition): for 15 minutes, all auditioners are on the same playing field. If the CO looks for a “Cleveland sound,” why not judge if the performer has it or not in the audition time frame? (Auditioners will probably re-audition in semifinals, finals, etc., giving the committee more time to judge whether he/she has got what it takes. Most likely, there are other musicians with Cleveland Orchestra-type ideas of what music should sound like without actually studying with a CO member.) The best case scenario would be that CIM students end up getting a big fraction of CO positions anyways, even with screened auditions, proving that they really ARE what the CO is about. In traditional closed auditions (as opposed to open, screened auditions), even if the final choice is a great musician, there’s no way of knowing how great compared to others interested in the same position. It just seems strange that a strong dependence on connections is the most effective way for gathering the best musicians, not to mention that this dependence clashes with most people’s intuition about fair play.
“On it’s website, “Extra” is reporting that Britney Spears has turned up at an LA tattoo parlor after skipping out on rehab. The troubled pop star was spotted smoking a cigarette outside the tattoo parlor she visited on Friday after shaving her head. The bald entertainer was reportedly wearing pants that still had size stickers on them from the store.
“On it’s website, “Extra” is reporting that Britney Spears has turned up at an LA tattoo parlor after skipping out on rehab. The troubled pop star was spotted smoking a cigarette outside the tattoo parlor she visited on Friday after shaving her head. The bald entertainer was reportedly wearing pants that still had size stickers on them from the store.
“‘Preucil and his girls-oh God, yeah, he’s legendary for it’ says one member fo the orchestra who didn’t want his name used.”
…I guess you could say Bill is a real orchestra “player”. (drum shot and cymbol crash)
By the way, is Strad Magazine really the “bible of the violin industry” as the author of this fine piece of journalism claims?….I’ve never heard it called the “violin industry” before….
“‘Preucil and his girls-oh God, yeah, he’s legendary for it’ says one member fo the orchestra who didn’t want his name used.”
…I guess you could say Bill is a real orchestra “player”. (drum shot and cymbol crash)
By the way, is Strad Magazine really the “bible of the violin industry” as the author of this fine piece of journalism claims?….I’ve never heard it called the “violin industry” before….
Preucil and the CO musicians have deserved a steaming helping of humility for decades.
Preucil and the CO musicians have deserved a steaming helping of humility for decades.
That’s not Carrie Dennis. The real Carrie Dennis is a longtime family friend of the Preucil family and would never say that.
As for Curtis kids getting into the Philly Orchestra, they get into every orchestra too. They have a small select group of students that do well everywhere they go. You can’t make any comparisons with CIM, its a completely different level. Curtis kids go to prestigious festivals and win big competitions on a much more regular basis than CIM kids, and the CIM kids that are capable of these things are a small minority of the student body there.
That’s not Carrie Dennis. The real Carrie Dennis is a longtime family friend of the Preucil family and would never say that.
As for Curtis kids getting into the Philly Orchestra, they get into every orchestra too. They have a small select group of students that do well everywhere they go. You can’t make any comparisons with CIM, its a completely different level. Curtis kids go to prestigious festivals and win big competitions on a much more regular basis than CIM kids, and the CIM kids that are capable of these things are a small minority of the student body there.
I understand the frustration musicians must have with not being able to find employment in an orchestra after dedicating their lives to practicing. But life isn’t necessarily fair, in music or any profession, let alone in the arts. An orchestra can focus on fair treatment for all who wish to audition, or focus on getting the best player to fit into their orchestra; American “fairness” doesn’t mean the two are the same or even compatible. The Cleveland Orchestra is one of the world’s greatest musical institutions, whether it is No.1 or No.10 in a listener’s opinion. It has the right to audition and hire as it wishes to maintain it’s quality. It seems from this trashy blog that The Cleveland Orchestra is being singled out because it is great and on top. Jealously and frustration by people who cannot admit to themselvers that they aren’t good enough to get into this top orchestra, or even be allowed an audition for it, love to blame others rather than face realities. Top is top. If you are complaining, you probably don’t belong there.
I understand the frustration musicians must have with not being able to find employment in an orchestra after dedicating their lives to practicing. But life isn’t necessarily fair, in music or any profession, let alone in the arts. An orchestra can focus on fair treatment for all who wish to audition, or focus on getting the best player to fit into their orchestra; American “fairness” doesn’t mean the two are the same or even compatible. The Cleveland Orchestra is one of the world’s greatest musical institutions, whether it is No.1 or No.10 in a listener’s opinion. It has the right to audition and hire as it wishes to maintain it’s quality. It seems from this trashy blog that The Cleveland Orchestra is being singled out because it is great and on top. Jealously and frustration by people who cannot admit to themselvers that they aren’t good enough to get into this top orchestra, or even be allowed an audition for it, love to blame others rather than face realities. Top is top. If you are complaining, you probably don’t belong there.
I believe most orchestras state “only qualified candidates need apply”. Qualifications for Cleveland must mean more than playing ability. It must mean playing in a certain style, or at least playing the audition material in a certain style. You don’t have to have studied with the section principal or at CIM, but I would imagine it would help to do so if you want to get into the Cleveland Orchestra. There are many musicians from CIM in other orchestras throughout the US. Could this mean that CIM educated musicians, especially strings, are great for other orchestras, whereas string students who study elsewhere don’t have a level, or a style, high enough for the Cleveland Orchestra? And isn’t it intelligent, and perhaps the norm, for candidates to try and get pointers from players in the orchestra they are auditioning for.
I believe most orchestras state “only qualified candidates need apply”. Qualifications for Cleveland must mean more than playing ability. It must mean playing in a certain style, or at least playing the audition material in a certain style. You don’t have to have studied with the section principal or at CIM, but I would imagine it would help to do so if you want to get into the Cleveland Orchestra. There are many musicians from CIM in other orchestras throughout the US. Could this mean that CIM educated musicians, especially strings, are great for other orchestras, whereas string students who study elsewhere don’t have a level, or a style, high enough for the Cleveland Orchestra? And isn’t it intelligent, and perhaps the norm, for candidates to try and get pointers from players in the orchestra they are auditioning for.
Death to both of the muslim violinists on this planet
Death to both of the muslim violinists on this planet
Well my opinion really on this matter has kind of changed over the last few days. I at first thought this was a horrorable situation but now think it is just reality and how the world works unfortunately. First of all, yes Bill probably did grope the girl. He didn’t even deny it when questioned. Frankly yes this is bad conduct by a teacher, but, this happens everywhere. Bill just happened to get caught with his pants down. Don’t tell me (if you are a male) that you haven’t groped a girl (or wanted to). It is just a trait of the male specie. Yes it is wrong to act on impulse, however, I believe in this situation, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
There’s another concertmaster of a major orchestra in this country getting head and banging his female students – he’s been doing this for years and has turned his studio into a casting couch. He has put many of his female students in his orchestra and others across the country. Coincidence that these women are hired over hundreds of other applicants? No. Does it mean his students aren’t good violinists? No. It does however mean decisions sometimes are unfortunately made the unfair way on a couch. If you don’t believe, take a look at Hollywood. Do you mean to tell me Halle Berry or Angelina Jolie wouldn’t give a director head for a role? If you are that naive, you have never been at the top of an artistic, where it is THE most competitive.
If you are going to tell me that the Cleveland Orchestra is the only orchestra where any of this crap is pulled you are very naive. If you want to talk about nepotism, take a look at the old Philadelphia Orchestra; 8 of its members were a part of the DePasquale family. If Ellen DePasquale has a problem with the situation she should just take a look at herself and her conduct with clarinetists.
Well my opinion really on this matter has kind of changed over the last few days. I at first thought this was a horrorable situation but now think it is just reality and how the world works unfortunately. First of all, yes Bill probably did grope the girl. He didn’t even deny it when questioned. Frankly yes this is bad conduct by a teacher, but, this happens everywhere. Bill just happened to get caught with his pants down. Don’t tell me (if you are a male) that you haven’t groped a girl (or wanted to). It is just a trait of the male specie. Yes it is wrong to act on impulse, however, I believe in this situation, the truth lies somewhere in the middle.
There’s another concertmaster of a major orchestra in this country getting head and banging his female students – he’s been doing this for years and has turned his studio into a casting couch. He has put many of his female students in his orchestra and others across the country. Coincidence that these women are hired over hundreds of other applicants? No. Does it mean his students aren’t good violinists? No. It does however mean decisions sometimes are unfortunately made the unfair way on a couch. If you don’t believe, take a look at Hollywood. Do you mean to tell me Halle Berry or Angelina Jolie wouldn’t give a director head for a role? If you are that naive, you have never been at the top of an artistic, where it is THE most competitive.
If you are going to tell me that the Cleveland Orchestra is the only orchestra where any of this crap is pulled you are very naive. If you want to talk about nepotism, take a look at the old Philadelphia Orchestra; 8 of its members were a part of the DePasquale family. If Ellen DePasquale has a problem with the situation she should just take a look at herself and her conduct with clarinetists.
“The concertmaster, an esteemed violinist who sits in front of the orchestra, is considered the most important member of the group. He sets the tone and pitch, and is the person OTHER MEMBERS TURN TO WHEN THEY’RE LOST IN THE NOTES. In many ways, the concertmaster is the voice and face of the orchestra.”
Lost in the notes, eh? WTF????? Obviously this was written by someone who is clueless about symphonies and the musicians who play in them. Charletain!
“The concertmaster, an esteemed violinist who sits in front of the orchestra, is considered the most important member of the group. He sets the tone and pitch, and is the person OTHER MEMBERS TURN TO WHEN THEY’RE LOST IN THE NOTES. In many ways, the concertmaster is the voice and face of the orchestra.”
Lost in the notes, eh? WTF????? Obviously this was written by someone who is clueless about symphonies and the musicians who play in them. Charletain!
“We have said on audition committees before in Philly that we did not want candidates from inferior schools. You can really hear the difference is quality between Curtis and CIM grads.” Phily must have its own style also, and prefers the Phily/Curtis style to the Cleveland/CIM style. Some people like beer and some like Champagne. I think they are both great, probably because they both have a history of hiring who they like in the way they like.
“We have said on audition committees before in Philly that we did not want candidates from inferior schools. You can really hear the difference is quality between Curtis and CIM grads.” Phily must have its own style also, and prefers the Phily/Curtis style to the Cleveland/CIM style. Some people like beer and some like Champagne. I think they are both great, probably because they both have a history of hiring who they like in the way they like.
I can copy and paste what the poster just said
As for Curtis kids getting into the Philly Orchestra, they get into every orchestra too. They have a small select group of students that do well everywhere they go. You can’t make any comparisons with CIM, its a completely different level. Curtis kids go to prestigious festivals and win big competitions on a much more regular basis than CIM kids, and the CIM kids that are capable of these things are a small minority of the student body there.he poster just said
I can copy and paste what the poster just said
As for Curtis kids getting into the Philly Orchestra, they get into every orchestra too. They have a small select group of students that do well everywhere they go. You can’t make any comparisons with CIM, its a completely different level. Curtis kids go to prestigious festivals and win big competitions on a much more regular basis than CIM kids, and the CIM kids that are capable of these things are a small minority of the student body there.he poster just said
Fairness has to be defined. Being fair means giving auditioners an equal chance to show their talents, not that they deserve to advance in auditions because they practiced hard. Different orchestras look for different things. If auditioners don’t have what it takes, too bad, because the CO looks for specific qualities that they might not have. Being fair and focusing on getting the best players are compatible goals. It’s hard to see how they’re not compatible. How would you be able to get the best players without being open to attracting players from many other institutions at the same level as you’re interested in attracting students from CIM? Although the CO is a wonderful orchestra, other orchestras have instituted more transparent and fairer policies and are very good orchestras (I know the Chicago is like this but other top orchestras might be as well). It’s good that Meiser has written this article, because she has broken the news to the public; before this, people probably didn’t know that there were audition differences between orchestras. A courageous piece of investigative journalism.
As to other concertmasters’ harrassment issues…Meiser falls short because she fails to point out that Preucil’s case isn’t an isolated one, even though it is condemnable.
Fairness has to be defined. Being fair means giving auditioners an equal chance to show their talents, not that they deserve to advance in auditions because they practiced hard. Different orchestras look for different things. If auditioners don’t have what it takes, too bad, because the CO looks for specific qualities that they might not have. Being fair and focusing on getting the best players are compatible goals. It’s hard to see how they’re not compatible. How would you be able to get the best players without being open to attracting players from many other institutions at the same level as you’re interested in attracting students from CIM? Although the CO is a wonderful orchestra, other orchestras have instituted more transparent and fairer policies and are very good orchestras (I know the Chicago is like this but other top orchestras might be as well). It’s good that Meiser has written this article, because she has broken the news to the public; before this, people probably didn’t know that there were audition differences between orchestras. A courageous piece of investigative journalism.
As to other concertmasters’ harrassment issues…Meiser falls short because she fails to point out that Preucil’s case isn’t an isolated one, even though it is condemnable.
wow, you guys really don’t know what you’re talking about. cim students definitely do better. are you guys even musicians?
wow, you guys really don’t know what you’re talking about. cim students definitely do better. are you guys even musicians?
If other students don’t agree with CO policies, they don’t have to knock on CO doors. As long as the CO keeps up its level of playing, I don’t think there’s much for anyone to worry about. Other talented musicians can apply elsewhere if they choose . There are other orchestras, after all.
If other students don’t agree with CO policies, they don’t have to knock on CO doors. As long as the CO keeps up its level of playing, I don’t think there’s much for anyone to worry about. Other talented musicians can apply elsewhere if they choose . There are other orchestras, after all.
Every single day
Every word you say
Every game you play
Every night you stay
I’ll be watching you…
It seems a lot of the commenters here suffer from the “Stockholm Syndrome” — where the victim falls in love, and defends, the captor and tormentor. For someone who’s completely “innocent,” Mr. Preucil’s national reputation precedes him in a BIG way, and has for many, many years. Funny how that’s NOT true of the vast majority of music teachers, who are decent folk. Wonder how Preucil so unfairly got singled out, and don’t say it’s Ms. Meisner. The gossip about stories precedes her article by many years.
It’s a candy store for these male music instructors who enjoy the sea of bobbing, talented, twentysomething boobs streaming in and out of their studios daily. I say that because that’s ALL these girls, and sometimes guys, mean to some of these guys. If the teachers play well enough to attract tuition-paying students, music schools will take the parents’ money and pay the teachers to abuse those very children’s trust, compromise their education, and their future. Isn’t that magnificent?! Don’t you want YOUR daughter, sister, or cousin to sign up? What DOES happen behind closed doors, in private lessons, for an hour every week? Shorthand for this means, “if you’re a “gifted” (insert vomiting noise here) musician, you have license to ruin young lives!!!!” ‘Cause God knows, we’d really notice if some slightly less “gifted” fiddler were sitting concertmaster.
And for the record, the most recent available tax return lists Mr. Preucil’s salary at $337,000, for 2005. Why not check it yourself at http://www.guidestar.org? The Cleveland Orchestra can be found under “Musical Arts Assn.” It’s comparable to the other four concertmasters of the “Big Five,” although certainly not substantially higher than orchestras running a similar budget.
It seems a lot of the commenters here suffer from the “Stockholm Syndrome” — where the victim falls in love, and defends, the captor and tormentor. For someone who’s completely “innocent,” Mr. Preucil’s national reputation precedes him in a BIG way, and has for many, many years. Funny how that’s NOT true of the vast majority of music teachers, who are decent folk. Wonder how Preucil so unfairly got singled out, and don’t say it’s Ms. Meisner. The gossip about stories precedes her article by many years.
It’s a candy store for these male music instructors who enjoy the sea of bobbing, talented, twentysomething boobs streaming in and out of their studios daily. I say that because that’s ALL these girls, and sometimes guys, mean to some of these guys. If the teachers play well enough to attract tuition-paying students, music schools will take the parents’ money and pay the teachers to abuse those very children’s trust, compromise their education, and their future. Isn’t that magnificent?! Don’t you want YOUR daughter, sister, or cousin to sign up? What DOES happen behind closed doors, in private lessons, for an hour every week? Shorthand for this means, “if you’re a “gifted” (insert vomiting noise here) musician, you have license to ruin young lives!!!!” ‘Cause God knows, we’d really notice if some slightly less “gifted” fiddler were sitting concertmaster.
And for the record, the most recent available tax return lists Mr. Preucil’s salary at $337,000, for 2005. Why not check it yourself at http://www.guidestar.org? The Cleveland Orchestra can be found under “Musical Arts Assn.” It’s comparable to the other four concertmasters of the “Big Five,” although certainly not substantially higher than orchestras running a similar budget.
Holy cow people, get a grip. This is flipping CLEVELAND, and the Cleveland Institute. It’s not Juilliard, or Curtis. It’s pretty damn easy to get into CIm if you can hold a viola. What is the success rate of CIM students? Abysmal, which doesn’t discount its notable alums however. Just because a couple critics got blow jobs from the administration and made some ludicrous statements about the orchestra’s place in the world, doesn’t mean it’s the primo orchestra of america. Jesus, it’s amazing the midwestern shithole even HAS an orchestra.
Astonished one that’s really not true actually. First of all, it takes a lot more than being an ordinary talent to get into CIM. It does rank as one of the perhaps top 5 music schools in this country. I would even rank CIM higher than the overrated Manhattan School of Music.
There was a NY Times article that came out two years ago that was written over a course of about 10 years I believe. The article followed the lives of students that had graduated from Juilliard. This article uncovered that in fact, only 1% of a Juilliard graduating will on average, would still be in the field of music 10 years after graduation. That to me sounds like a pretty crappy school. Many of the greatest artists didn’t go to Juilliard or Curtis. Yes those school do have as low acceptance rates as the Air Force Academy, however, on the other hand Juilliard and Curtis produces hardly anyone now.
BTW anyone else think Lexi Preucil is hot? She reminds me of Denise Richards..
Let me start by giving thanks to the author of comment #87. Rebecca Meiser is obviously very foriegn to any prestigious music scene (just look at the cheesy writing in the beginning). I am a student at CIM and I highly resent the author’s rediculous slandering of CIM. Just because something did or did not happen does not give ANYONE the right to talk cheap about CIM’s prestigious reputation. Grow up and stop acting like you are thirteen. The only reason this one-sided and ridiculous article was written was because you wanted power and money, so you pathetically made fun of someone else to get recognition for yourself. I wonder how such a person sleeps at night.
there once was a girl named jeanie (preucil)
she propositioned to come and see me
my dark side said yes but i must confess
between her legs was don millers peepee
Angela I agree to a certain extent with you about CIM as a school. It is a very fine school, however, that does not mean CIM is immune from such behavior by a professor. It happens everywhere. As far as the author doing this for money I doubt it. The Scene is a free newspaper, the big bucks are in large newspapers and magazines.
Yes unfortunately CO member I’ve heard that too..btw I might be wrong, but the Cleveland Orchestra does seem to have less people of Jewish heritage in the orchestra, is there any truth behind that?
No, I can proudly say that there are plenty of us who are “os Jewish heritage” in the orchestra.
Obviously, there are also plenty of us who can’t stop behaving like assholes in this blog, too.
Juilliard grads getting nowhere?
What are you talking about?
Curtis grads?
look at all of the top major orchestras around the country….
you must be crazy to think that CIM is better than Juilliard or Curtis
Isn’t it wonderful that we have so many great schools in this country offering our talented young musicians a choice. It’s not a matter of where’s best, but who you want to study with, and can you get into your first choice school. If you can’t get into your first choice, there are many other choices.
Now I see. The Cleveland Orchestra has no problems with the jews but me and my Muslim friend are not ok. This smacks of racism. If you read our previous comments (284,289) you will know. I am considering a lawsuit. As I have said before, Allah punishes sinners.
#317 you’re wrong. Maybe you are not very smart, or are bad with math, the numbers don’t lie. 1% of Juilliard graduates are still in the music field 10 years after graduation. That is astoundingly bad. A simple explanation is that they do not always accept the best talent. In case if you do not know most (if not all) Juilliard admission decisions are made BEFORE the actual audition.
If Mr. Kawasaki, or Ms. Kang Suk or whatever wants little ‘Minji’ in his studio he will agree to take her, even if there is someone else better auditioning against ‘Minji’. Juilliard is overrated, lots of the students aren’t really that great. I remember hearing this violinist from Juilliard try to hack his way through the 2nd movement of a romantic concerto. He got lost although the music was right in front of him on a stand. As far as the faculty is concerned, really the only person that can play on that faculty is Perlman. The rest of the people there can’t play for shit. Kawasaki and Weilerstein are hideous violinists.
Juilliard had a fraud of a teacher for many years by the name of DeLay. It amazes me how stupid people are when they hail this woman (who did not know jack shit about violin playing) as a great teacher. She didn’t even play the violin past the age of 40 practically. She walked around with a Subway sandwich inside of a violin case.
Dave – I would tend to agree with you on your points. I actually attended Juilliard and studied with DeLay for my undergrad. Although there were good parts of the school like the atmosphere, the location, and the great facilities, I did not feel I got anything out of Ms. DeLay. She was a very kind and smart person however, and in some ways could teach students to think a little. She used the Socratic method of asking the student a question constantly. She intentionally had these assistants teach the students how to play in a certain mold – something she could not do.
I have to say though, there was a very shrewd business like quality to her which none of her students really saw. She was really a manager not a teacher. She was also a very political person, far worse and cunning than anyone mentioned in this article. Ms. DeLay once threatened to leave Juilliard and take all of her students elsewhere after a rather well known violinist who studied under Heifetz was appointed to the Juilliard faculty. The school of course budged and decided to not hire this violinist to teach there.
I also remember how Ms. DeLay blocked a certain prize winner from a major international to attend Juilliard due to the fact this person was a student of one of her rivals.
Let’s bash Ms. DeLay……….
Those comments on DeLay are right on by the two above posters. Too bad no realistic articles were written exposing this phony of a teacher Dorothy DeLay or her interesting relationship with her mentor, or the faction that built when she and Galamian had a falling out. It’s funny how a lot of you actually hold a higher opinion of DeLay and Juilliard than Preucil – someone who can actually play. Shows what you all know.
Juilliard grad, was this violinist student of Heifetz you refer to who DeLay threatened to leave Juilliard over (after he was hired), have the initials EF? Now that you brought it up, I do recall hearing this very same thing from a faculty member from Juilliard at around the time, who was outraged.
It is sad to see such animosity between colleagues.
Can we get back on topic, You are ruining the effectiveness of the comments and that’s exactly what the people of the C.O. want (minus a few) Quit talking about other orchestras!!! Lets talk about how to get this story to the donors of the school and orchestra… See what they think about it!!!! Focus people!!!!!
Who would want to see ruin and shame come to this orchestra? Does the timing of this story seem strange? Everyone can draw their own conclusions…
CO Member thanks for bringing up those points. Of course it is well known DeLay was a fraud amongst the inner circles. No one spoke up, cause she exercised such control. CIM is lucky to have such a wonderful group of people teaching there. Preucil is an excellent musician, and has much to offer to both the institute of music and the Cleveland Orchestra.
Dave it is interesting that you are bashing the Juilliard school when you call Mr.Hyo Kang Kang Suk… Very interesting indeed
I am not good with math? Please show us a link. I can make up stuff too. Maybe little Minji is a much better player than you. Maybe you couldn’t get into the Juilliard school. If CIM was so much better than Juilliard then maybe it would produce better players and soloists. I’m not here to judge but I dont see that happening right now.
Also while we are at politics lets discuss Zakhar Bron, Viktor Tretjekov, Ana Chumachenko, David Takeno, Felix Andrievsky, Eduard Grach, Igor Oistrakh, Igor Ozim, Isaac Stern, Kurt Sassmanshaus. I mean this stuff happens everywhere. Get over it. It’s the way our world works. We should be more concerned with the sexual harrassment accusations.
Anon #328, you sound like a student of Mr. Kang Suk chill out. He’s one of those guys that teaches but doesn’t play. Juilliard is full of that going back to Galamian and DeLay, or the current sucky Dean Stephen Clapps who is a miserable violinist, and a member of the faculty. Juilliard is not that great, the poster above was not making up facts. Go do an archive search in the NY Times. THe article came out in the winter of 2004 I remember. It does not mean anything to go to a school with a bunch of Korean kids who’s parents bribed the faculty to get admitted. I remember the article did state something along those lines of 1% of Juilliard students having careers in music a decade later. That’s not very good. The above CO Member poster is correct about Dorothy DeLay. That woman was a sham, end of story.
I too wonder where all the fantastic violinists from CIM end up, I mean according to Dave it is a much better school than the Juilliard school right?
I am not a student of Hyo Kang. I actualy think that you are the one who should chill out. I mean this is an article about CIM and the CO and you guys are mentioning the Juilliard school and Dorothy Delay. Wow, and I should chill out for pointing out that if Daves claims are correct and CIM is a far superior school than the Juilliard school then where are the results?
Bill may have made some mistakes, but does he honestly seem like the kind of person who wants to harm the Cleveland Orchestra? The person who is behind this article obviously does.
Who has shown themselves to be a good manipulator of the vulnerable? Who, in your heart of hearts, do you know is without conscience enough to be behind this story?
who needs grey’s anatomy when you have a cleveland orchestra concert? this is all so dramatic, they should make a tv show about it.
To the poster before me, grow up man. On a side note, Ellen is so manly looking, I could never see how anyone would want to sleep with her. Lexi on the other hand is a goddess. Any guy would be lucky to have a lady like her. Lexi if you’re reading, don’t get down on all of this negative talk and all these naysayers. It is mostly girls who are jealous of you and who don’t look half as good as you or alpha males types. You are one of the most gorgeous women I’ve ever seen.
FYI-
The Cleveland Orchestra has an incredibly strict anti-discrimination/harassment policy and enforces it rigorously, at least with underlings. Of course, the alleged incident happened at CIM, so it’s like, cool, dude.
oh my…
Music Lovers one and all
I have been following this very interesting discussion for a week now. After over 40 years of being a subscriber I have one observation to add to the discussion. When it comes to the visual I would rather look at DePasqualle instead of Preucil any day of the year, additionally she is a very fine fiddle player. Lets go with the complete package.
Respectfully,
Eye Ball On You
I’m just curious about something: if the audition committee doesn’t decide anything or have any influenceon choices, why do they exist? If the music director doesn’t decide anything or have any influence, why is he in the audition circuit? Let’s just let the CEO make the decision then, and save a lot of time and money.
That he doesn’t have power in auditions is a ridiculous concept. People who have promoted the view that Preucil had no influence on audition results are being terminally naive.
Samir wrote : “Now I see. The Cleveland Orchestra has no problems with the jews but me and my Muslim friend are not ok. This smacks of racism. If you read our previous comments (284,289) you will know. I am considering a lawsuit. As I have said before, Allah punishes sinners.”
I didn’t know that the people who worship the Muslim religion was it’s own separate “race”. Funny, I’ll have to review my assumed definition of the word. My guess is that if the Cleveland orchestra was mainly a muslim group then there wouldn’t be any women in it either. This would be just smacked of racism now, wouldn’t it?( oh, I mean’t sexism. sorry).There’s just no winning is there?
Here are my 2 cents: It seems that no one on this blog actually is who they claim to be. Carrie Dennis, Max Dimoff, the comment before mine… The real cleveland orchestra is doing well and would never say or do the things being implied by imposters. I suppose it’s only appropriate the constant bloggers to have the same intellegence as the tabloid article.
my above typo makes my point, this blog is making me dumber! i’m never coming back here again!
Good. Bye Mr. Cerone, you dumbass.
Good. Bye Mr. Cerone, you dumbass.
I like make liquid explosion inside of Ellen too! I like to make a romance inside of Saeran! High five for sex crimes! William Preucil is new national hero of Kazakstan!
There once was a case or harrassment,
Which did cause a little embarrassment,
But the one who deserved shame
Was called Lev by name,
‘Cause he’s harmed the entire establishment.
Sorry everyone, I made a typo….
There once was a case of harrassment,
Which did cause a little embarrassment,
But the one who deserved shame
Was called Lev by name,
‘Cause he’s harmed the entire establishment.
So what’s the poem with Jeanie and Don Miller about? I’m kind of lost can you CO members fill us outsiders in? I’m sure we’d be enlightened to hear some of your bedtime stories. What’s a concertmatress by the way?
I don’t know what all of this fuss is about. I attended the CO pre-concert chamber concert yesterday and it is clear that several members of the violin section can’t play, so who cares if some of the members are related? On a side note, someone informed me that three of the violinists performing had auditioned to be Concertmaster for the Seattle Symphony. No surprise they are still here.
There is a reason why David Cerone resigned from CIM…it is because there are now four lawsuits from former Preucil students alleging sexual misconduct, etc. Cerone was too timid to stand up to Preucil and so he was “retired”. Preucil is a blight on the orchestra and CIM. Students are in very precarious positions and Preucil takes advantage of that.
As for the CO auditions, Preucil DOES have a final vote as to who gets the seat…Franz actually has less say. Watch for Preucil’s daughter to get a permanent spot in the CO next season, if not before!
The CO is now the “Bill Preucil Family Band”…to get a chair students either “pray with Bob Vernon or Lay with Preucil”. How sad for such a great orchestra to be sullied by such a slimey man.
To the person that posted before me, to me as an outsider who plays professionally elsewhere, it does not seem as if Preucil is the only one abusing power in that orchestra. If I’m not correct please tell me. I have heard about numerous nasty sexual affairs and infidelity by other members. It really sounds like a snakepit for a lack of a better term. The Old Cleveland Orchestra is very different from this current “Preucil Family Band” as you pointed out. I do not longer feel this ensemble is on the level with NY, or Chicago. Just out of curiosity, where did you get the information on their being 4 lawsuits? I’m not arguing with you, certainly this newspaper I’m sure met with a legal team before it was published to make sure they had credible evidence, obviously they do (probably the paper work showing CIM paying this girl’s tuition elsewhere) and they decided to publish it. If there was no hard evidence, the Preucils, the Cleveland Orchestra, and the Institute of Music – who this article really makes look bad would be suing the shit out of this newspaper for millions. Actions speak louder than words and that has not happened.
hey, this is only bringing more attention and interest to a dead art and will bring more people to stare at you who never before set foot in severance hall but who watch family guy every night. you are all dreaming if you think that Cleveland can sustain funding for the CO. look around, you clevelandites, your city is sliding quickly downhill, not only with this scandalous behaviour by supposedly respected individuals
Wow, I stand corrected. After speaking with Carrie Dennis and Max Dimoff I have learned that they really did post those obscene comments! I am such a dummy! Sorry everyone. I see that they have taken down Dimoff’s comment. Good thing, that was way out of line. I will say however that I have to second Borat’s comment up there. I would totally f**k the s**t out of Saeran and Ellen.
The above blog is not the same person who origionally posted as “real CO member.” This just proves my point: NO ONE is who they say they are. Don’t believe a word on this blog, make up your own mind if you wish on the article and realize that there’s always 2 sides to a story.
Man, you are such an anal douchebag. Let them have fun.
To the above “Real CO Member”, Ellen I think is a very fine violinist, but she looks like a horse. I could not see how anyone would want to do her, unless they were really drunk, or haven’t had sex in a really long time. Take a look at her ewww:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sipecannon/365566058/
You are right. I haven’t had sex in a very long time.
As a newly appointed member of another “big five” orchestra, I agree that a lot of auditions are biased. I would not think twice about NOT going to Cleveland for an audition. Everybody knows that Lexi is not up to par with the rest of the young musicians practicing for jobs. There are a lot of great players out there. Frankly, after taking more than 10 auditions myself, I’m getting really sick of the politics. What every happened to “let’s hire the best musician out there, who will be an asset to our orchestra!”
I would like to tell everyone that I will be guest conducting the CO in upcoming concerts this season. Ever since “Dancing With the Stars”, I’ve been dreaming of new opportunities to offer something unique to the culture at large. Now, the perfect collaborative partnership seems to have presented itself. (Ding-Ding!)My producers and I are thinking LONG and HARD about the program, which will be a cross-cultural/dressing, trans-gender/forming musical extravaganza of epic proportions. Well, either that or the Suite from “Lord of the Rings”. Stay tuned.
THE JUILLIARD ARTICLE
Several people incorrectly remember that the NY Times story about Juilliard grads 10 years later stated some 1 percent success figure. I did much of the research for that article (and was credited in print on the article), just reviewed it, and it never mentioned such. In fact, it would be virtually impossible to prove that kind of stat because of the subjective nature of “working in music.” Does that mean a full-time orchestra job or a free community orchestra rehearsal once every five years, all self-reported, by the way? In any case, there’s really no quantitative way of measuring whether grads of Juilliard or CIM are more successful, unless perhaps the ASOL or ICSOM keep records. I think that 1 percent figure may have come from me on radio discussions — I used the stat of 17,000 music degrees awarded in 2001 with only 250 “jobs” of varying salaries (some less than $5,000/yr) advertised in International Musician that year. Off the top of my head I think that’s about a 1.5 percent “success” rate — of course that’s just one year, and there are many ways to calculate these things. I’m an alum of neither CIM or Juilliard, but given Juilliard’s location, extensive faculty outside of local orchestras, and international reputation, I’d assume the success rate there would be at least equal to CIM. I think one of the giant, unaddressed issues this story brings up is that the vast majority of conservatory graduates may have trouble finding the kind of work for which they’re educated — and they may not be prepared for much else. In addition, one of the most disturbing facets of these comments is the discussion of the physical appearances of VERY accomplished women — in disgusting terms — without any note of the same in the men discussed here.
You know things are bad when Blair Tindall has to be the one to come along and elevate the discussion.
Anonymous: Exactly what part of Tindall’s work do you object to? A really tame and informative book that you probably didn’t even open to find out what it was about? Remember her New York Times story that came out right before orchestra contract season exposing the giant conductor salaries a couple of years ago? Yeah, bonehead, that was the same author, and it really, really, helped the case of musicians. I guess you didn’t see it, because, if you went to music school, you may or may NOT be able to actually read. That person who commented on the Stockholm Syndrome was right on. May you rot “joyously” in your chosen profession.
Blair baby, I still think about you. Keep up the good work.
I have HAD it with all of you assholes. I quit! Hire a fucking whore-ish bimbo that can’t play. That should please SOME people.
I agree with Tindall. We are definitley at a socio-cultural crossroads when it comes to the survival of classical music in this country. Between funding concerns, decimated music education programs in the schools and a sea of electronic media competing for entertainment dollars, good orchestra jobs are few; hence the high passion levels surrounding the article.
Phase Two: CO asnd CIM fending off subsequent visits and/or investigations by:
EEOC
National Labor Relations Board
After all, why should America’s symhony orchestras be given a pass in their hiring practices when corporations and small businesses are held to very tight standards for hiring? Certainly today, for one open seat in a major orchestra there are 25-30 highly qualified players out of the 150 or more that may apply..
There is no shortage of talent and experience and these highly coveted positions are not entitlements, they are highly paid, competitive salaried gigs which should be filled with the very best players available at the time. One more note: When an orcehstra decides to not fill a position after an audition they should be forced to reimburse each and every player for travel, lodging and recording expenses. It is not as if these jobs are routine interviews within a 40-mile radius of one’s home…
Gregory Fiocca
I am retired regular concert goer in the Cleveland area and I am frankly outraged by the behavior of the Cleveland Institute of Music, David Cerone (President) and the Cleveland Orchstra , Gary Hanson (president). It looks to me like there is a kabal between three organizations, Cleveland Orchestra, CIM, and WCLV and it looks like their dealings are not clean. My advise to Rebecca Meiser is to dig deeper into this. We Clevelanders would like to know who is responsible for the decline of cultural values and quality in our city.
Way to go Mrs. Meiser, for uncovering this suspiciouly communistic web of dealings! I have only heard of siiar things from people who have lived in the formr Soviet era. It’s amazing how similar this situation is.
Keep up the good work!
I agree with the last poster. The author can and should dig a little deeper. All the generous donors and patrons deserve to know about the corruption that goes on in these professional orchestras. Cleveland is not the only one, actually there are orchestras with far more corruption with just as much notoriety as Cleveland.
I also find it rather ironic Blair Tindall of all people, is giving us here a moral lecture. A moral lecture coming from someone who claims to have slept her way into major orchestral gigs as a mediocre at best oboist. It is people like you, I play better than, and worker hard than, that I audition against, and lose to. Your book only further infuriated me, it served no helpful purpose, all it did was shed another light on the casting couch. Ms. Tindall – you are responsible for all the decisions you have made. No one forced you to do the things you did. I respect this anonymous student in the article more so, because she addressed the problem, and dealt with. Much of the time a victim (as you have made yourself look) is someone who brings it on themselves. May God be with you.
To #362: Ridiculing the literacy of music students? Wishing someone to “rot” in their chosen profession? You sound like a person more interested in revenge for personal satisfaction, rather than change for greater good.
I’d do Ellen.
Iam new to the furore surrounding W Preucil,the Cleveland Orchestra and the CIM.After reading many of the comments i feel duty bound to cut through the crap and add some more.Here in europe,bringing an orchestra into disrepute is an instantly dismissable offence.A concertmaster,like anyone holding high office,should be squeeky clean and beyond reproach in all directions.An orchestra quickly becomes a hellhole and disfunctional if the concertmaster does not retain credibility and respect from all quarters.I believe W Preucil has betrayed a noble and privileged position.I cannot believe he is still standing and that he attracts such a blind and pathetic entourage.The world is busting with super violinists and incredibly worthy musicians,no-one is indispensable believe me.
A European concertmaster
Blair Tindall said: “I think one of the giant, unaddressed issues this story brings up is that the vast majority of conservatory graduates may have trouble finding the kind of work for which they’re educated”.
Yes they do in part because of people like you that sleep their way into coveted jobs and kiss the asses of important contractors.
Also, what do you care what some people say about certain musicians’ appearance? You obviously used your good looks(?) to gain employment. That seems to even out, no? Really, you are not someone that should be dishing out ethical or moral advice.
How is Britney today?? Does anyone know? I WANT MY BRITNEY UPDATE!!!!
Why doesn’t the Cleveland Orchestra make some changes starting with the Concertmaster position? There’s a gentleman in Seattle, Mr. Talvi, that has been out of work for a year or so, that is certainly in my opinion a better violinist and leader. The guy can play, although he’s a little crazy.
Get real,Ilka is no replacement for Preucil,but you are right,he should go.Not only has he soiled his own pants and the orchestras reputation,but he has shat on everyone.When the entire profession around the world is under cultural and financial strain,we need this kind of crap like the dinosaurs needed an ice age.
Lets keep it real!Talvi is no replacement for Preucil,but you are right,he should go.Not only has he soiled his own pants and the orchestras reputation but he has shat on everyone,domino style.With orchestras around the world under considerable cultural and financial strain,we need this kind of crap like the dinosaurs needed an ice age.
Hascha,you`re a funny guy,sounds like those slimeballs in Cleveland could use your slant and style.
A former concertmaster
I think the article is absolutely ridiculous. It’s true that Preucil has sexual assault charges and nepotism exists in the orchestra. However, it is not necessary for a Cleveland newspaper to insult one of Cleveland’s greatest assets. I don’t even want to know how many CO subscribers ended their subscriptions because of this article. It’s mostly just sad and pathetic how a Clevelander wants to kill a great school and a great orchestra in her “beloved” city. I’m not saying want Preucil’s done is OK, but rather that it was entirely unnecessary to publish this article when the same thing is occuring in other major orchestras. Cleveland has enough trouble without it’s greatest thing being ruined.
What did this article accomplish? From what I can tell, the only result has been hurting the Cleveland Orchestra and CIM’s reputations. What Preucil “supposedly” did with one student has nothing to do with his value as a musician, his skill as a teacher, nor his relationship with his other students. As a CIM student, I sincerely hope this does not hurt my school’s reputation as being one of the finest convervatories in the nation, and as a huge fan of my teacher (a Cleveland orchestra member), I hope that readers of this article will not lose their admiration for the great Cleveland Orchestra.
CIM student, the “great” Cleveland Orchestra does not represent who you are. So get over your bad self and focus on your own career. Stop worshiping these characters and idolizing the orchestra. These musicians and this orchestra is what it makes of the present situation.
huh?
As the indigent father of three girls, I would like to thank Mr. Pruecel and CIM for sending all three of my girls to East coast schools. All that rubbing and lingering glances really paid off!
As the father of 3 girls, I could not afford to send my girls to music school. Therefore, I depended on Mr Preucil to rub up against and leer at my daughters in order to get them sent to prestigious and expensive East coast schools. Thanks Mr Preucil and CIM !
Dear Mr Schwalbe,
It is indeed an honour to hear from you.Thank you.You have been a guiding light in the concertmaster world,much of what iam today is grace a vous.I would love to meet you someday.Sincerely Hascha
“Anonymous” said (and others have written similarly):
> What did this article accomplish? From what I can tell, the only result has been hurting the Cleveland Orchestra and CIM’s reputations.
Well, if the article is accurate, yes indeed, the reputation of the Cleveland Orchestra and CIM will probably suffer. And deservedly so, unless they take corrective measures. Since when is a newspaper not supposed to publish something that’s true because it might harm the reputation of the subject? It’s not the job of a newspaper to protect the reputation (and secrets) of a favorite hometown institution. No doubt it happens often enough (local news stations, for example, often seem more like PR agents for professional sports teams than journalists seeking actual news). I’m quite troubled by the shoot-the-messenger (or blame the reporter) attitude of a lot of posters, especially those not disputing the veracity of the story but asserting it shouldn’t have been published.
Iam still living in Berlin.You will find me regularly listening in on BPO rehearsals and attending concerts.Iam 82,and “fit as a fiddle” some say.Hope to see you Hascha!Iam following this blog with both serious interest and amusement.Life waxes and wanes between comedy and tragedy,nowhere more so than in Cleveland apparently.
I can play circles around you Schwalbe.
In response to “what does this article accomplish,” from all you posters out there, I think I can sum it up. While this may not be news to some people, to others, it is. But besides that, it’s more about what it bring into the open. This kind of behavior has been going on a long time in the music scene, and it’s been like the “big pink elephant in the middle of the room that nobody is allowed to talk about.” But now that someone has finally broken the story, and has a lawsuit to back it up, it is much more prevalent….I can GUARANTEE you this kind of nonsense won’t be happening nearly as much as it has in the past.
Comments 381,382,probable from one and the same.The author obviously suffering from some sort of identity challenge regarding his three daughters.Society has a name for people like yourself,you`ll find it under P in the oxford dictionary.P for PIMP.
Its of little relevance to anyone what you think of your own playing Mr GD,its entirely for others to decide,Dummkopf!
All his female students when graduating, in addition to their Bachelor’s or Master’s Degrees in VP, receive a Master’s Degree in Skin Flute Performance.
The CO concertmaster has scewed up big time and should do the decent thing and step down.Only a fresh start would deodorise some very dark and rancid corners.A concertmasters job is to ensure that things run smoothly,not to be the instigator of sexual scandal, suspect politics,shitwaves and malcontent.Keep cleveland clean and dump the garbage.
Hascha, Everyone knows I am the best. I have gotten positive reviews in all the major classical press. My tone can melt the panties off any number of my pretty little students. So, fuck off.
What’s a bit of sexiness to titillate an audience? Maybe my strapless gown could slip down as I flail at the Tchaikowsky concerto, maybe a concertmaster has sex with his students…so what? to all of you who think the reporter is trying to kill the CO and CIM, why would she want to do that?? There is nothing in it for her. Rather, I applaud her for bringing attention to the racy fun!
Dicterow swallows.
You are quite right, Anne Sophie. I enjoy sex with my students, it is like a right of passage. Now that this is out in the open, I hope we can all embrace it, rather than criticize it. I have enjoyed sex with visiting artists such as yourself as well. My couch is open. No fatties though, I don’t think I could get it up. Well, maybe with those pills. Also, I do not like horse-faced women either.
You remember Karen Bentley ‘G. Dicterow’?
I’m joining the discussion a tad late. Here’s my two cents, it serves a good purpose, the article obviously has some substance, if the evidence was unsubstantiated, the Scene would be liable. They have evidence probably to back up what was already written as someone else earlier pointed out. I don’t however feel the writing is that profound or good. The author does not seem to know much about classical music. As far as all these people that claim Preucil is a “virtuoso” player, I think that is not true at all. He is a very fine player, I don’t think though he could handle a hard virtuosic showpiece or concerto, technically speaking he’s quite limited actually. Preucil has enough chops to be a concertmaster and or 1st violinist of a quartet, but by no means is he a virtuoso.
The entries under Mr Dicterow are obvious fakes,its a pity the dummkopf responsible is trivialising a serious issue.The profanity attached shows a verbal limitation matched only by his violinistic deficiency.
Sounds to me as if Mr. ‘Preucilrow’ is Glenn himself. Only someone with his name in question would care so much as to reply to such slanderous (but mostly true) allegations posed by the obvious troll.
Perhaps Ms. Meiser the author of this piece, can do some more digging and come up with another story on how someone else (not mentioning anyone’s name) has been getting his ‘German helmet’ polished by female students for years.
Preucilrow swallows. His verbosely inarticulate post reveals the extent to which his latent homosexuality and pedophilia inform his thoughts, dreams and actions.
GD didn’t become known as the walking penis for nothing.
The poster posing as G.Dicterow….you are one sick fuck!
Dear Mr. Preucilrow, I fucked your mom. It wasn’t great, I got shit all over my dick from fucking her in the ass. Later, as I was cleaning it off, I discovered what looked like herpes on my genitals. Oh well.
Comment 400…..pretentious crap!trying to hard to appear clever.Bad english prevails..its not even my first language but its infinitly better than this gobbledygook.
The “his”(three times in the same sentence)is redundant.Should read..
“the extent to which homosexuality and pedophilia (paedophilia)inform(s)his thoughts ect..
“Verbosely inarticulate”.. rubbish writing!and ironically more aptly describes your own
literacy or lack of…
You sir,are a MORON.Stay away from this blog and pull yourself off to your sick thoughts.
Comment 400…..pretentious crap!trying too hard to appear clever.Bad english prevails..its not even my first language but its infinitly better than this gobbledygook.
The “his”(three times in the same sentence)is redundant.Should read..
“the extent to which homosexuality and pedophilia (paedophilia)inform(s)his thoughts ect..
“Verbosely inarticulate”.. rubbish writing!and ironically more aptly describes your own
literacy or lack of…
You sir,are a MORON.Stay away from this blog and pull yourself off to your sick thoughts.
Comment 400…..pretentious crap!trying to hard to appear clever.Bad english prevails..its not even my first language but its infinitly better than this gobbledygook.
The “his”(three times in the same sentence)is redundant.Should read..
“the extent to which homosexuality and pedophilia (paedophilia)inform(s)his thoughts ect..
“Verbosely inarticulate”.. rubbish writing!and ironically more aptly describes your own
literacy or lack of…
You sir,are a MORON.Stay away from this blog and pull yourself off to your sick thoughts.
Comment 400…..pretentious crap!Trying too hard to appear clever.Bad english prevails..its not even my first language but its infinitly better than this gobbledygook.
The “his”(three times in the same sentence)is redundant.Should read..
“the extent to which homosexuality and pedophilia (paedophilia)inform(s)his thoughts ect..
“Verbosely inarticulate”.. rubbish writing!and ironically more aptly describes your own
literacy or lack of…
You sir,are a MORON.Stay away from this blog and pull yourself off to your sick thoughts.
GD poster;comment 400.You`re trying too hard,and you come across as a moron.The”his” in”his latent homosexuality” is redundant,and “verbosely inarticulate post” is just bad english if not gobbledegook.Stay off the blog and play with yourself.
Preucilrow, you are a pompous ass. It is quite easy to get under your skin, isn’t it?
“Its not even my…” should read: It’s not even
“Trying to hard” should read: Trying too hard
“Infinitly” should read: Infinitely
Bad english prevails indeed, you cocksucker.
A mere slip of the keys,you`re clutching at straws.As i said,english is not my first language.
You are quick to use profanity,it is the last resort of the mentally outwitted.Did your father use lubrication or did he take you “al dente”….?
Pompous and condescending. I guess you aren’t taking the high ground anymore are you? Why don’t you go back to policing other blogs with your mental diarrhea? By the way, your mom says hi, although she said she enjoys fucking me better. haha
I certainly will,you bore me,i need a sharper and more original foil.
$10 says Preucilrow and G. Dicterow are the same posters.
You lose!Send your $10 to Iraqi orphans charity please.
Fuck a duck!
u cant predict the future….oh my. cleveland, a once great metropolis, is done, unless someone strong does something quickly. we just lost what detroit lost in terms of population and we’re 1/2 her size. there is no more corporate sponsorship… in case u hadnt noticed; there r no corps left. but lets keep infighting and say “no tax abatement.” ull b lucky 2 get anyone(firms) with a tax abatement. im a lifer but im ready 2 leave 4 my kids sake. the only influx were gonna have is ex clevelanders visiting their dead relatives unless something happens soon and strong. sorry. cleveland, will the last one to leave please turn out the lights??!@!
sorry to all the females victimized by this jerk. The only reason he’s concertmaster is because daddy Sr. principal viola of Detroit hooked him into this circle, and daddy in law is a big cellist. He ain’t much of a violinist, his intonation is piss poor. sorry to the dumbkopf engaged to his daughter, hope he hasn’t caught anything, yes and that is what I mean, judging from her history w/ 40 year old members of the opposite sex who play the violin.
Just FYI to all of my old Cleveland/CIM friends and posse, in the event that our Japanese friend hasn’t already cleared the misunderstanding: Al Capone’s comment (#356) includes a tag of one of my pictures on Flickr. The picture is mine. The comment isn’t.
-M
Lexi has a fire crotch…
Yeah, I would totally do her.
Sorry atricle.
Holy Fuck!
Ironically enough, if Steve Rose wants to try again, auditions for two Concertmaster positions are tomorrow (April 16). Pruecil is a great guy and a wonderfully engaging performer with an enthusiasm that is almost unmatched. We should be grateful to have a musician like him to learn from. We all have our faults and he is not the entire decision making panel for auditions. If his family truly sucked, which I seriously doubt, they would have been kicked out the door first thing. I can understand the anger about the alleged CIM scandal, but all condemnations are solely based on rumors and hearsay. Don’t judge, especially without knowing the whole story. LEAVE BILL ALONE! If all he is trying to do is perform and teach great music to the world, help his family by any means and avoid confrontation from media, then I would say he is no different than the most of us. Everything aside, we should appreciate the amazing gift to the music community he is, and all the wonderful things he has given back. Celebrate the man, don’t judge him.
Mike for a lack of a better term cut the bullshit. I don’t think Preucil is a great guy or even a very good violinist. He has shown his true colors in the orchestra with his nepotism and abuse of power. There is a reason why every orchestra in this country has a screen down between contestant and jury. The reason is to do away with this kind of biased selection process that Cleveland uses. As far as the incident with this poor young student, it has to be legit, otherwise the newspaper would be liable for these allegations. Preucil is not above scrutiny, he got himself into this mess, and as a result has dragged the Cleveland Orchestra and CIM down with him. It is clear, his objective is to not just teach and perform music, but rather, it is to destroy people, and step on whomever he can, including that female student he victimized. His day is coming.
As far as Preucil’s playing goes, I have heard him play on numerous occasions, his intonation is really quite bad, he has no tone, and his musical ideas are of the poorest taste. He uses slides gratuitously in music. Preucil is by no means a virtuoso violinist in my opinion. I don’t see what this aura around him is, and why anyone would ever want to study with this guy is beyond me.
Now that the concertmaster dust has settled, lets devote our energies to getting a new,
real conductor for the cleveland orchestra. This Franz guy is a DUD.
As a famous statesman said
” Franz, Your doing a hellava job”
Any comments?
Respectfully, Eyeball
It is well known that both Franz and Bill Preucil take it up the ass.
1. audition policy of the Cleveland Orchestra was in place for many years before he was hired for concertmaster
2. he is not the only concertmaster/principal player/famous teacher/conductor who has dallied with colleagues/students/employees. As it says in the Bible “Thy name is Legion”
3. As far as unfair auditions……they are by their very nature “unfair”…with one vote or many votes…it is very subjective and very much like the judging of the gymnastics at the Olympics….it would seem to be a rational process (in tune/out of tune; good pulse/bad pulse; musical/dull) but it is not….personal issues are always involved, whether it is sex or nepotism or whatever. Sad, but true and the way of the world.
That said, he probably should be released from CIM…if true, it is actually illegal
I really dislike Preucil, he’s really a subpar violinist, and a complete dirt bag. This article has obviously uncovered a lot. Had these allegations been untrue, the newspaper would be facing lawsuits.
I don’t know how some of you people think he’s good at the violin or a nice person. Of course if you are one of his students, a colleague, or are his daughter you are blinded to what he is all about and what he stands for.
Let me tell you people who are too blinded to see what he really is about what Preucil is. He is a true disgrace to all the people around him and has not only brought himself down, but the entire Cleveland Orchestra, his students, and most importantly his family. My advice to all these people affected around him is to disown him.
Too much power given to such a selfish person (as in this case and many others) always backfires. It is evident he has risen to the position he has, based solely on his familial ties (father, father-in-law) not his ability. As someone said earlier, there are little 14 year old Korean boys and girls that can play far greater than Preucil.
I hold great contempt for such a person. I hope for the good of CIM and the CO, they pressure him to hang it up and go into hiding (somewhere in Shaker Heights), and hire a real violinist/musician with integrity to fill his position(s).
hahaha
I have taken masterclasses’ twice from Mr. Preucill, and twice I have noticed him staring at my chest!
It’s outrageous. I don’t care how well he plays.
You must have a very nice chest. Just kidding bad joke, yes I agree that it is ridiculous to abuse his power like that. As a teacher, students should be to a teacher what a patient is to a doctor. There shouldn’t be a difference, this relationship should stay completely professional.
I’d really love to see Bill handed his pink slip from the CO. It’s a disgrace this guy is still on the payroll at CIM, can’t they find anyone any better? I will enjoy the moment actually as should all real musicians when he’s finally reprimanded. This guy is an utter phony, as a violinist and as a person. Lots of people play a whole hell of a lot better than he does. Not everyone’s daddy is Bill Preucil Sr. and has the career ins he has been born into.
Bill Preucil is an amazing musician. 14-year-old Korean kids can play better than he? Right. That’s one of the most idiotic things I’ve ever heard. You obviously have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. He’s a poor teacher? Look at his past students- current concertmasters of Indianapolis Symphony, Oregon Symphony, etc.
I know some of Glenn Dicterow’s top students at Juilliard, and when Preucil came to give a masterclass this year, they were completely blown away. By the way, Glenn Dicterow is concertmaster of the NY Philharmonic. I just thought I’d let you know that because obviously the kind of people posting bad things about him on this site are morons and probably don’t even know who Dicterow is. I don’t know if Preucil did anything to any of his students, nobody does.. but I highly doubt it. To continue on to insult his musicianship is terrible. Get the hell out of the way and don’t make false accusations. You obviously don’t know what you’re doing, so stop before you make an even bigger fool of yourself. If that is possible.
I agree with the last poster to some extent about Dicterow. He is a fabulous violinist and concertmaster. Preucil on the other hand is not on that level as a violinist or a professional, he does not have Dicterow’s resume, training, or experience. Preucil’s behavior is unexceptable and unbecomming of a leader, musician, and pedagogue. If this story was not on the money, it would have been taken off immediately. Clearly there is legal evidence that supports thie article’s findings. Don’t shoot the messenger for bringing to light these problems. Is it a coincidence ever since this article was published last year that the Cleveland Orchestra has included a screen in violin auditions? Had there been no screen, we’d be seeing another (unqualified) Preucil sitting in the Associate Concertmaster seat. Preucil and Rose know that everyone is watching them.
so youre saying that every story on the internet is valid?
and stop acting like this is the first case of nepotism in a professional orchestra.
its not just up to preucil to decide who gets in the orchestra. so when he says who he likes, the rest of the auditioning committee is going to question this. they obviously thought that he was making a good choice.
the music world is dirty, people. everyone knows this. but leave bill preucil alone. hes a great guy.
Of the big orchestras I’ve heard, Cleveland is definitely the most BORING!!!! They have a tiny little sound, especially in the strings. Go listen to Chicago or NY or Philly, if you want to hear some realy color and excitement.
CIM is a good school. Less good that it used to be, but still one of the top 10 conservatories in the US. I personally know ONE oboist who I shall not name who I have dated on and off for 6 years. HE has told me about his own affairs with students at KSU and wherever he currently teaches–most of them are asian–he brings them to his house which is in GEAUGA county and than winds up having sex with them…he is a total pervert…really wierd. They are usually very naive and have no clue and he just gets away with it…still.
Cleveland is a dead town. The people who live there live in a bubble. At one time they had one of the best orchestras ever (1960’s). The only thing left of that is the memories. The Cleveland Orchestra doesn’t even pay better than the next group down, and their salary is the lowest of the top 7 orchestras (top 5, SF, and LA). I think things will be getting more difficult for them in the future.
I was student of JR and yes he did dat me and I am Korean.
But he said American girls too big for him.
She is just jealous of us. I guess he told her about hs little bout with chlamydia and she flipped out or something ! She need to get a life
So…he gave me great grades and a free meal.
HE even lets me park his lexus.
lol
My my my. It would appear that the apple does not fall far from the tree indeed. Deep in my heart I truly believe that that courageous young woman that litigated should in no way be targeted for further abuse and criticism from this murder of crows. The previous comment that she “was only doing it just for the money” is a revolting, ridiculous and sickening bit of stinking trash fish running down the polluted Iowa River in the dead of August. That’s just the same old same old tired litany of their pathetic groupies blithering and blathering away with atonal cacophonous “blame the victim not the criminal crap” that this wealthy, nouveau-age Suzuki militaristic and Nepotistic family is globally famous for. I can well believe every single word to the letter that she was reported to have said about this spoiled issue of his father’s namesake who even looks like a bloated clone of his more pristine untouchable petit pere vieil, only taller, and more Neo-Nazi like with his ridiculous shaved head. I feel for the suffering of that brave young woman who is now paying dearly for her silence. There has never been a Eudice Shapiro or Dorothy Delay in that notoriously mediocre, greedy and power hungry twinkle twinkle Empire who have with audacious and unpardonably consistency bastardized the sacred trust that should be a given in the student teacher relationship, and there never shall be. They are the very definition of Philistine. They all can play their flash trash s*** til the hogs finally come home to them to wallow in their own filth but that can’t save them from themselves. All Empires are doomed to crumble and I will personally dance for joy on their figurative graves when that day comes and they are forced to truly be held accountable for their “alleged” crimes and not just blithely get off so frankly-frank Scott free. Even if it takes a bazillion years and I’m just observing from the back of the balcony of the Great Concert Hall in the sky. However long it takes for it to finally sink in to their followers, salivating lackeys and Court that the Emperor is indeed wearing no clothes.
My my. How transparent the comments in favor of the predator. Now its 2018 and we know. How does that crow taste now, fellas?
Charles Bernard.
Where are you now?
Come and post a comment again!
Very interesting in retrospect.