'It Humanizes You': An Interview with Mayor Justin Bibb Halfway Through What He Hopes Won't Be His Only Term in Office

In the two years since he was sworn into office on the steps of 601 Lakeside, Mayor Justin Bibb has run a policy marathon to try and accomplish some of his hopes of making Cleveland a "modern" American city. He's helped usher in new efforts at police accountability, pushed for walkable streets legislation, and championed a lakefront rehab that could actually be built. (Or, in Bibb's mind, will be built.)

A lot has changed, including the man himself: The Bibb from the campaign trail is different in many ways than the one sitting in office now.

He's just beginning to crystallize not only what he can truly do as an executive for Cleveland but also who he is as an executive. And we are constantly witnessing multiple versions: the suited, data-obsessed strategist—Bibb speaks often in numbered bullet points and business jargon—and the swaggering stoic with undying adoration for his hometown.

"This job hardens you," Bibb told Scene Thursday afternoon, sitting cross-legged in an end chair in City Hall's Red Room. "It molds you, and it humanizes you in a way that you can't plan for when you're running for office. And I think over the last few years, I've been more comfortable in allowing my humanity to show up."

This interview has been edited for length and clarity.


SCENE: You came into this job fresh from a world of finance strategy and development consulting. After two years, how has this seat changed your opinion of what City Hall can and can't do?

BIBB: Well, I certainly think coming out of the pandemic, the role of the mayor has changed, where people expect far more from their mayor than they historically have ever had to before.

America's mayors were on the front lines of the Covid-19 response. America's mayors were on the front lines of responding to the tragic murder of George Floyd. And now we are on the front lines of, in many ways, restoring democracy at the local level, restoring the economic vitality of our respective cities, and being a voice of reason when you have extreme MAGA Republicans in both Columbus and D.C., and this hyperpartisan nature of our body politics driving so much misinformation and so little trust in government.

And even as you think about the lack of real action we've gotten from lawmakers in Columbus and in Washington, D.C., around common sense gun reform, again, we are the ones bearing the brunt of gun violence across the country. And so not only do we have to show our ability to get stuff done, but we have to be in position to bring people together. And so in many ways, I think the role is bigger than I anticipated.

SCENE: Speaking of George Floyd, you've put a focus on Issue 24 and the Community Police Commission. Since then, there's been some growing pains, if you could call it that, some difficulties. Where do you see Issue 24 now?

BIBB: I'd say over the last two years, it's still in its infancy stage in terms of creating a strong foundation. And I've said this often before, democracy is messy. Our constitution is a living document. The city charter is a living document, and it's a work in progress.

In the second half of my term, I'll be spending a lot more time with the members of the commission and making sure that we continue to appoint the right people who believe in my common sense approach to this dual mandate I have as mayor: effective, constitutionally-appropriate policing, but aggressive law enforcement to keep Clevelander safe and secure.

But we have a long way to go.
SCENE: You yourself have observed a lot of natural tension between the executive branch and the legislative branch. I don't think it's been excessive, but there have been a few points of tension between you and [Council President] Blaine Griffin. And I think you yourself said that it's just natural. And Blaine agrees with you. Where are you at now with the Council President?

BIBB: I don't envy the Council President and his job. He's got a hard job, and I think he has done a really great job of being a voice of moderation and a voice of reason amongst the 17 members of City Council.

I would be concerned if we agreed on everything. It's important that we don't agree on everything, because that's what government is all about. We both bring our best ideas to the table, and we try to find compromise that fits the interest that we're trying to serve for our residents every single day.

SCENE: The recent article in the Washington Post revolved around the successes of Public Square and Euclid Avenue. But what about Burke?

BIBB: The Master Plan for the Lakefront should be done by, I believe, the end of January. It's 90 percent complete.

SCENE: Can you talk about it?

BIBB: Yeah. Listen. I'm the first mayor in history to do two studies to examine the impact of Burke closing. I'm waiting for those studies to inform our administration's point of view around that. That's a long term question we need to answer.

But in the short term, here's what we're focused on. Number one, my plan is all about our Shore To Core strategy for the city and for the region. How do we truly become one of the only two waterfront cities in America, with the work we're doing with Dan Gilbert and Bedrock at the riverfront, a nearly $4 billion plan to the work we intend to do with the Haslams, the Great Lakes Science Center and the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame and upkeep stakeholders for the lakefront.

We're going to be in D.C. a whole lot in the first part of this year—

SCENE: Thanks for telling us now.

BIBB: —talking to 'Mayor' Pete [Buttigieg] and the administration about all the infrastructure dollars we want to apply for. And we'll be narrowing more streets in the urban core of Downtown.

SCENE: Like Superior Avenue?

BIBB: Yeah. Everything's on the table, right?

SCENE: What about retail? Cities like Washington, D.C., and Portland, Oregon, have laws that punish property owners or developers for not building or maintaining active ground-floor spaces. What can you do though, as mayor?

BIBB: Well, we've already moved forward with, number one, our TOD transit management policy, where we are eliminating parking requirements in high transit frequency areas.

SCENE: Yeah, but that’s parking.

BIBB: Eliminating parking minimums in high-transit-frequency areas is a key part of that plan.

Two, our Complete and Green Streets ordinance is all about making sure that many of our streets are more walkable with more protected bike lanes all across the city. As you know, this year we're kicking off, for the first time since 2007, a citywide Mobility Plan to ensure we can have more protected bike lanes all across the city.

And then thirdly, I would also say, like we did on Market Street in Ohio City, we're going to close more streets.

SCENE: Which ones?

BIBB: Stay tuned. But we're going to close four to five more this year.

SCENE: Could we guess what they are?

BIBB: Probably.

SCENE: On the subject, @ThinkerBrian from Twitter/X asks, 'When will we get more protected lanes? And can we experiment with simple, inexpensive protection solutions as an alternative?'

BIBB: Well, we already have experimented.

You see the new bike lane plastic protectors we put up on Lorain Ave. We're going to be putting more up on Detroit Shoreway. We just actually did a contract for more of those. And those should be installed, I believe, later this spring, early this summer.

Unfortunately, I can't flip a switch overnight, and have more protected bike lanes. Because as a city, for a long time, we didn't have a focused effort and a focused strategy around this.
SCENE: We hear that all the time: 'Why can't Bibb just put in a bike lane? Why can't Bibb just remove the Jersey barriers?' What do you say to those people?

BIBB: Yeah. The first thing I would say being on this side of the table is very different than being on Twitter.

There's a lot that goes into getting hard things done, getting support from City Council, raising the capital to finance these efforts, procuring the goods and services and the equipment we need in a very complicated supply chain environment coming out of the pandemic. All those things take time.

Now, did I want to remove the Jersey barriers in my first day in office? Absolutely, I did. But here's what we discovered: there were millions of dollars of damage done to our infrastructure and utilities underground.

SCENE: Really?

BIBB: Yes. That undermined our ability to remove the barriers overnight.

And so it's our intention to break ground after the solar eclipse this spring. And hopefully by the end of the year we'll see an end to the Jersey barriers in Cleveland.

SCENE: Yay. And could we ever see the Square closed to buses?

BIBB: Public Square has so much untapped potential as a front door.

We're in active conversations with JACK Casino, Bedrock, the RTA and other key stakeholders about how we can activate that space better, and what's the future strategy for Public Square.

And there could be a scenario where all buses are redirected from Public Square to a new transit center. Whether that be at Bedrock in Tower City or on the lakefront—who knows. But all options are on the table.

SCENE: Let's get out of Public Square for a second. Your campaign was in part focused on the southeast side. You hired strategist Marvin Owens to tackle issues there, mainly with housing. At the end of your term, if you don't meet your own expectations for the southeast side, do you consider yourself coming short?

BIBB: [Smiling] Well, I have high expectations, so I'm never going to exceed them.

But I will say this. We have deployed an all-of-government approach in a way that the city has never seen to address the historical lack of disinvestment we've seen in the southeast side; and our $50 million ARPA investment is only a down payment of what it's going to take to truly transform that part of the city.

Number one, we had a major public safety surge with law enforcement over the past summer to address violent crime in the southeast side. (Yesterday, we did a major cleanup, with 56 violent criminals arrested.) But in addition to that, over the summer we did a major surge with the U.S. attorney, the ATF and U.S. Marshal Service.

We also had a major public works cleanup. We've already demolitioned many homes. And starting this year we'll be deploying grants as part of our small business initiative, putting real money on the street around home repair and home rehab.

SCENE: Two-and-a-half years ago, you stood on the steps of a house managed by Holton-Wise, and you've kind of announced—what would you call it?—a rivalry between you and these shady property managers and out-of-state investors. Where do you see yourself now in this fight?

BIBB: Well, we are in the throes of that fight.

The other weapon we just deployed was legislation that we introduced last year, Residents First. That's going to do a couple of things. Number one, create a local law to make sure that every out-of-state LLC investor has a local public agent that we can hold in court accountable for any predatory practices or any derelict violations they may have on their properties. Secondly, it's going to give our Building & Housing Department more tools of accountability to hold these predatory landlord and zombie LLCs accountable.

And thirdly, it gives us a broad mandate now to have potentially a Point of Sale inspection for vacant property. This is one of the most comprehensive pieces of legislation around housing we've ever seen in the city. I'm hopeful and optimistic that City Council will actually hear this legislation and pass this legislation at some point early this year.

SCENE: Some point this year?

BIBB: Some point this year.

SCENE: What about you? You live downtown, you go see Chris Rock at the Playhouse, you go salsa dancing, you're out dating—you're out living this life.

BIBB: I live the city that I love, right?

SCENE: But how much of that can we assume informs your policy?

BIBB: Absolutely, it does. And it's not just when I'm downtown, in my neighborhood. It's at my uncle's house where my grandmother raised my family, or when I'm at church, or when I'm at a friend's place on the East Side or the West Side.

Anytime I have a chance to talk to a resident, I ask them a couple of questions: How you doing? What's going on on your street? And how can I help? That's the best poll I can get in terms of how we're doing at City Hall.

SCENE: A lot of city employees, if not the majority of city employees, live outside of the city they work for. I mean, what does that say to you about Cleveland?

BIBB: I don't know those figures. This is largely due to the fact that the state of Ohio, through the Ohio Supreme Court, ruled that to be a City of Cleveland employee, you no longer have to live in the city of Cleveland.

Again, I would say we want to be a city of choice for our employees and for our residents, as well.

We were ranked by Zillow as one of the top ten hottest housing markets in the country. And so I think that speaks to the growing excitement, and the growing interest in the brand and the product we are building for our city coming out of the pandemic.

SCENE: The city is a business.

BIBB: The city is a business, you have to grow. We have to grow our economy. We have to grow jobs. We have to grow our population. And you can't do that by sitting on the sidelines doing business as usual.
SCENE: A personal question. Observing you for two years, and a little more than that on the campaign trail, we've seen you loosen up more as a speaker. You seem more relaxed, a bit more off-the-cuff.

BIBB: That's a fair observation.

SCENE: How do you feel at the podium now?

BIBB: I will say it was a hard transition from candidate to mayor. When you're a candidate, you feel as if every word matters. You are trained to stay on message all the time. And I was a really disciplined candidate. I think that's what allowed me to win the campaign, particularly as a first-time candidate for an executive office. I did what I was told.

But in this job now, going into my third year, I have a better sense of who I am in the job because of what I have experienced in the job, the challenges that I had to experience as a leader, whether it's finding the energy and the empathy to be with the Bartek family after [CPD Officer] Shane Bartek was murdered, to be with the family of [Officer] Johnny Tetrick when he was killed in line of duty, to being on the scene the afternoon after the mass shooting we experienced last summer.

This job hardens you. It molds you, and it humanizes you in a way that you can't plan for when you're running for office. And I think over the last few years, I've been more comfortable in allowing my humanity to show up.

To me, that's all about maturing as a leader, maturing as an executive, and knowing what my strengths are, and knowing where I need help and support, and really relying on those strengths to guide how I lead.

SCENE: Do you work differently two years in?

BIBB: I still want more time to process information.

This job requires a lot of 15 minute-, 30 minute-meetings where you're making decisions. I've instructed my team to give me more time to process information, to really connect the dots regarding small issues and big issues, and how they intersect.

Secondly, I can never be in the community enough, and so really prioritizing more time with unscripted visits to coffee shops, barbershops, salons, churches, grocery stores, parks. Just talking to folks.

SCENE: Any favorites you've been to?

BIBB: My new favorite coffee shop is Lekko. My new favorite restaurant is Poppy in Larchmere.

SCENE: You were the face of Cleveland Reads last year. Best book as of late?

BIBB: Atomic Habits by James Clear. It's really good.

SCENE: Oh, and speaking of last year, you and Kid Cudi had a conversation about the Moon Man's Landing festival that never happened. There was no application?

BIBB: They didn't apply for a permit.

SCENE: Anything going to come of that this summer?

BIBB: I'd love to have Kid Cudi and his crew do a dope concert. I don't know yet. I got to check with his team.

SCENE: Last question. Weed is legal in Ohio now. Would you smoke with us?

BIBB: Would I smoke with you? [Laughs wildly.]

SCENE: Yes.

BIBB: I'd take a gummy with you. How's that?

SCENE: Oh, really?

BIBB: Yeah, well, I got to find somewhere to buy some. The state's got to get it together first.

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